ICS M4 Firing Problems.

[viraL]

Ok so..

I recently bought a used ICS M4 (I believe it has the T3000 motor, as it's not loud as hell, will confirm later) and it will not fire. The gun was apparently upgraded with parts inside (metal bushings, and a spring which is apparently shooting 440-450fps. other than that I have NO idea) and worked fine before. When I have the receiver split the gears all turn nicely no problems on the lower.

When I fire it, it spins and i guess moves the piston back or whatever, but won't fire. It just locks up. Either I release spring tension, or I open it up and it fires. I'm going to try replacing the spring tonight with my friends stock CA SLR105 spring and see what happens, as the spring in the gun is WAY too intense for me anyways.

The way it is setup with the battery, is there is the fuse for the gun, then a mini tamiya, then i have it connected to another cord with a fuse that brings it to a bigger connector (looks like a bigger tamiya?) because the battery on my friends AK47 (mine didn't come with it's own) has the bigger connector.

So if you can imagine, it has two connectors and two fuses. Could this be a problem? Tonight I'm also going to try and use it with a nunchuck mini tamiya battery, so minus the whole extra wires and fuses jig.

After doing some research I have realized it's because the spring installed is probably too intense (he said the gun was doing 440-450 FPS, apparently the previous owner used it as a counter sniping gun) for the 8.4v 1800mah battery that I was using. As I said I'm going to switch the spring anyways, and I will post back tonight how she is working.

Although it may seem like I have solved my problem, I would like to know if anyone has any tips, or if you can identify any other possible problems that could be a reason why the gun will not turn over. Also if you have any questions on the internals I'll try and find out but seeing as this is my first AEG (i have been spending literally the last 2 weeks reading about it, so I am pretty familiar with what's going on inside) if you could point me in the right direction for identifying these parts, that'd be awesome.

I did search the forums and I found an earlier post where someone had an identical problem, and the solution was a bigger battery.

Thanks!
Richard

[Crunchmeister]

Right away I would say that a mini nunchuck battery pulling a big-ass spring like that is the problem. There are all kinds of reasons a gun wouldn't turn over, but in your case, once you confirmed the lower mechbox turns and it won't pull the spring, you can bet it's that heavy spring / small battery.

Downgrade the spring to a normal spring and you'll be fine.

[FlyingCats]

Tried pressing that? It resets the gearbox or something like that

[viraL]

It's actually the forward assist button, that on the ICS models releases spring tension. Doesn't really do anything with the gearbox, I'm apparently told it sets the bottom gearset to the proper placement for the gun (teeth down) but I don't trust it.

Unfortunately my gun is not at my house so I can't change the spring, but thanks for confirming Crunch!

EDIT: Going to friends house to fix it, gonna try putting the spring in with an allankey.

ALSO

does there NEED to be a screw in the spring guide, or can i just line up the pins? Because the previous owner must've lost it because it wasn't there when I opened it..

[phantastik]

I swear to god if you do hackjob of re-wiring my ak that you used that battery for I'll beat you with the solid wood stock

[viraL]

Well it didn't fire last night so I must've done something I'll make sure she purs when I leave though I'm bringing her home tonight. Why don't you MSG me on MSN loser?

[Death March]

I pretty sure it's the same problem I had after putting a M-120 spring in,you need a big Battery for that gun. I ended up putting a G&P cranestock on and I had to stay with Ni-Cad batteries as the Ni-Mah didn't have the nut's to cranck it over. I'v had it running this way for four years no issues with a good battery!

[viraL]

Bad fucking ass. I got the shittier spring in and lubed it up with white lithium grease (i know silicone lube is better/prefered but i didn't have any) and it shoots. Awesome!

Thanks guys!

[Crunchmeister]

Yeah, there was little doubt in my mind. Even a 400 fps spring is hard work for a small battery like that to pull without torque-up gears.

[viraL]

Ok so I got to shoot some BBs through her today. Shot fine for about 1K rounds then I would get the same problem, as if the battery didn't have enough power or something. This is done with a 1400mah battery. So I release tension open up mechbox it pops like it fired and I went and put the battery away to charge.

Brought it back out on a full charge, every time I would finish a burst it would get stuck and not fire, and if i would take more than 1 second between semi shots it would get stuck. The lower gearbox worked fine..

Then, i got it working through pressing the forward assist and the trigger simultaneously a bunch of times.. and eventually it just completely stopped firing. Even the lower mechbox wouldn't turn on itself.. on a battery with less than 50 shots fired freshly charged (had previously gotten over 1000 shots with one charge)

Rembmer, this gun was used and I got it for 300 so I didn't really expect 100%. In the upper mechbox before I relubed it it was getting stuck when the piston was all the way in the cylinder..

So i was thinking that maybe I burned out my motor? Motor contacts? Maybe even the wiring?

I was planning to rewire the gun entirely and switch to deans anyways, so I am most likely going to do that. I'm pretty tech savvy, but I haven't touched the lower mechbox yet. Is there anything I should try before I replace the wiring? Tomorrow (I don't have the gun at my house, I can't fire it here anyways) I'm going back to my friends, and I'm going to check and see if maybe a wire came loose on the motor?

For the record on the last full auto burst I completed the hand grip was getting warm, not hot, but warm. And I could smell something electronic for sure.

So other than checking the fuse, checking the motor connections, and replacing the wiring.. is there anything else I should check? I can manually move the gears so I don't think it's them..

[Death March]

The battery I use is a 9.6 volt 2200 Ni-Cad and I also run a 9.6 Ni-MH both are G&P,now the Ni-Cad lasts way longer than my Ni-MH.I'v always found if your running bigger loads (Amps) that Ni-Cads deal with it better than Ni-MH. The motor thats in the gun now is a ICS Turbo 3000 (My 2000 died alongtime ago). The 3000 is good for a 170 spring (Or so ICS says). Now you they say with a AEG takes around one BB per mAh,now if you make the gun hotter that numbers going to go down! Your using more power to crank a hotter spring. You say your running a spring thats around 450ish,with a 1400 mAh battery,I wouldn't even think it would turn it over. That kinda of spring I thought would need something like a 10.8 volt 2200 mAh. Just something to chew on.Hope it gives ya some idea's,Cheers!

[viraL]

Originally Posted by Death March

The battery I use is a 9.6 volt 2200 Ni-Cad and I also run a 9.6 Ni-MH both are G&P,now the Ni-Cad lasts way longer than my Ni-MH.I'v always found if your running bigger loads (Amps) that Ni-Cads deal with it better than Ni-MH. The motor thats in the gun now is a ICS Turbo 3000 (My 2000 died alongtime ago). The 3000 is good for a 170 spring (Or so ICS says). Now you they say with a AEG takes around one BB per mAh,now if you make the gun hotter that numbers going to go down! Your using more power to crank a hotter spring. You say your running a spring thats around 450ish,with a 1400 mAh battery,I wouldn't even think it would turn it over. That kinda of spring I thought would need something like a 10.8 volt 2200 mAh. Just something to chew on.Hope it gives ya some idea's,Cheers!

Ahh, no this is not true. I am no longer running the 440 beastly spring. It's currently shooting like 330? (poor mans crono). It's a stock CA SLR105 spring that I got from my buddies gun.

When I replace the motor (if i need to) is it the Long or Short version? :S I was thinking about just grabbing a new Turbo 3000 and throwing it in (only 55) along with a new wire job and deans.

[mcguyver]

ICS uses poorly plated switch contacts. The heavy spring would mean that the battery is asked to discharge a large amount of current in order to meet the demand by the motor. Sometimes grease, or other contaminant will cause the contacts of the switch to become corroded quickly. You would be able to easily see this when you split the gun open.

The switch is easily replaceable with an aftermarket one, ot even a stock Marui is fine.

[Death March]

It's a long motor.You could try one of the newer Systema Magnum motors,yeh there alittle much but the pay off lol.If you had a short of some kind it wouldn't fire at all.I'm working on my buddys G&G that had a dead short and it blew all the copper of the selector plate and the two small parts of copper on the switch.I think Airsoftparts.ca had the ICS motors though.I'v never had an Issue with my ICS 3000.You could try cleaning you motor!

[viraL]

OK JUST A REMINDER I DONT HAVE THE BEASTLY SPRING IN THE GUN ANYMORE SO THIS CANNOT BE THE ISSUE. IM USING A SPRING THAT SHOOTS 330-350 ITS A STOCK SLR105 SPRING!

Ok so so far.

Check motor/clean motor
Check switch contacts.

Also it would seem I am missing a screw on the bottom of my pistol grip in the center. This is a problem, isn't it? Also, my spring guide doesn't have a screw. Is this an issue? I'm planning on replacing the spring guide anyways

And Death March Airsoftparts does have the ICS motors but they are out of stock.