G&P once pice hop up problems - help please

skaterjoe · November 19th, 2005, 16:29

ok, so i get my G&P aluminum body all assembled (its the one that with no body tabs that slides rather than foldes) last night.
i stick the battery in a loaded mag and shoot at my bed and a few other objects in my room.
some times it would misfire, but most of the time it would shoot. i was a little worried because i had had some troubles with it the first time trying to put the hop up togeater.
well, i took it out side today to test it, and when the bbs do shoot they dont go any way.
so i take it apart to look at it. if i put a bb in the chamber, i can not blow it out with my mouth. on the stock hop up i can.
also, when i put the hop up rubber in, it feels really tight compared to the stock one.
am I going to to dremle it out?
any help is apreciated, espesialy if its before next week end

thanks,
Joe

thorvald · November 19th, 2005, 16:48

Most people (including myself) use a large allen key that fits inside the hop-up barrel and then wrap some metal sand-paper around the key. Then start to spin....

It takes a LONG time if your paper is not very coarse however. Eventually you will have it so that the barrel and hop-up rubber will slide in and out easily.

ILLusion · November 19th, 2005, 18:32

i've had this same problem with Guarder, G&P, and Systema one piece hop ups. The tolerance for moulding these units are pretty tight. A lot of times, the inner diameter of the chamber is too narrow and ends up squeezing the hop up around the BB too tightly.

I have a round file that I use to open it up. But yeah, it does take me about 2 hours to modify.

skaterjoe · November 20th, 2005, 01:31

ok thanks.
I also read that poor gear timing can also cause a similar thing because the nozle is not in the barrel. so ill have to look at my gear timing closly because i also just took apart my mech box.
when i mesured the timing to 1mm between the tapet plate and gear nub, it seemed like it started another cycle already (it was on semi auto) but im not 100% sure. can a higher battery voltage cause this?
any way, im going to file down the hop up and let you guys now how that turns out.
thanks for all your help guys :tup:

Joe

mcguyver · November 20th, 2005, 01:38

there is no such thing as gear timing. timing implies that 2 or more gears must be doing things that need to coincide with each other to require timing. only the sector gear does interlocking work between the tappet/nozzle and piston. it is not adjustable (unless you start to re-machine things). there are other articles posted in these forums that involve this myth and they go into much more detail on why there is no such thing as timing. btw, there is nothing inside the gear box that can cause misfeeding or jamming unless the tappet, nozzle or cylinder head is physically broken. too much hop-up can cause these problems. try turning your hop all the way off and see what happens (assuming you haven't already done that).

ILLusion · November 20th, 2005, 04:31

and just to reiterate mcguyver's statements (since i hear the opposite said all the time): THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GEAR TIMING. You can put the gears in 180 degrees off "time" and assuming you can assemble it with the piston in that position, the spring cocked, and the tappet plate cocked, all you need to do is fire off one shot and the gears will "time" itself right back to where it's suppose to be.

The cut-off lever "re-times" the gears on each shot.

I have in 99% confidence that your problem is as already mentioned.

Please post if you find otherwise...

skaterjoe · November 21st, 2005, 01:00

well, that sort of good news.... whish i had known that befor i had taken my mech box apart a dozen times :hammer: oh well, at least im comfertable with taking it apart now.
any way, i have a favor to ask, when i was playing around with the 'gear timing' and it looks like the nozle protrudes 16mm from the end of the mechbox, but after i cycle the gun it only protrudes 11mm. if some one has there gun apart, could they mesure how far the nozle protrudes? i put the end of the ruler against the mechbox with the numbers paralel to the nozle. (just so there is no confusion as to how i mesured) this just kinda bugged me when i first noticed it and it still does.
so, ill sand down my hopup unit tomorow ( i didnt get around to it today)

other than this, im very impressed with the fit and finish of the G&P body. but gun is sooo tight now. the only other fit issue is the mag release. you cant push the mag in most of the time, you have to push the buton in, and hten you have to push it back. im going to sand down the mag catch ware it it makes contact with the body.

im going to try writing a full review when i get it all working, seeing as i could not find any info on it when i was looking at buying it.
any way, thanks for all the help, and for clearing up the issue with gear timing. (or lack of )

Joe

ILLusion · November 21st, 2005, 09:56

it does that through the momentum of the gears spinning. it'll pull back a bit and the bevel gear latches keep it locked back a bit. nothing to really worry about. it happens in all 5 of my AEGs

skaterjoe · November 21st, 2005, 12:56

I just realized. there is a little gold ring that aparently has something to do with the hopup. can any one tell me ware it goes?

ILLusion · November 21st, 2005, 13:16

starting from the muzzle of the barrel:

- Gold ring
- hop up chamber/barrel clip
- hop up rubber
- hop up chamber

does that make sense?

the ring is used to stabilize the barrel inside the chamber.

skaterjoe · November 22nd, 2005, 23:20

ok, that makes sense.
wow, it sure takes a long time to file that down. took the dog for a walk and filed at it for 30 min. still wouldnt fit.
thanks for all the help, ill let you know when it works.

Joe

ILLusion · November 23rd, 2005, 09:08

yeah, it took me about 2 hours to do mine and I used a fairly rough file

skaterjoe · December 5th, 2005, 14:55

ok, i got it working.

i actuly had it working almost a week ago, but i forgot to post.
any way, i played a game with the gun and i dont think ill ever be able to use a plastic armalite again.
thanks for all your guy's help.
Joe

Trader rating · December 6th, 2005, 22:09

yah, plastic sucks bigtime
Ill never buy TM again unless they come full metal.
All these new people asking what guys to buy, i always recommend against TM now. Internals are fine, but its the externals that cost money. going metal is the only way.

skaterjoe · December 7th, 2005, 00:54

my advice to my friends when they want to know what gun to buy is: make one! i figure your already going to want to customize it so why not build from scratch. im trying to build a gun from scratch right now, and some of the parts are a little harder to find that others. oh well, its still fun

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November 19th, 2005, 18:32	#3
ILLusion GBB Whisperer Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto	i've had this same problem with Guarder, G&P, and Systema one piece hop ups. The tolerance for moulding these units are pretty tight. A lot of times, the inner diameter of the chamber is too narrow and ends up squeezing the hop up around the BB too tightly. I have a round file that I use to open it up. But yeah, it does take me about 2 hours to modify. __________________ *Advanced Airsoft Armaments and Enhancements* Quick to the gun, sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas Accuracy, Power, Speed

November 20th, 2005, 04:31	#6
ILLusion GBB Whisperer Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto	and just to reiterate mcguyver's statements (since i hear the opposite said all the time): THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GEAR TIMING. You can put the gears in 180 degrees off "time" and assuming you can assemble it with the piston in that position, the spring cocked, and the tappet plate cocked, all you need to do is fire off one shot and the gears will "time" itself right back to where it's suppose to be. The cut-off lever "re-times" the gears on each shot. I have in 99% confidence that your problem is as already mentioned. Please post if you find otherwise... __________________ *Advanced Airsoft Armaments and Enhancements* Quick to the gun, sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas Accuracy, Power, Speed

November 21st, 2005, 09:56	#8
ILLusion GBB Whisperer Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto	it does that through the momentum of the gears spinning. it'll pull back a bit and the bevel gear latches keep it locked back a bit. nothing to really worry about. it happens in all 5 of my AEGs __________________ *Advanced Airsoft Armaments and Enhancements* Quick to the gun, sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas Accuracy, Power, Speed

November 19th, 2005, 16:48	#2
thorvald Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2004	Most people (including myself) use a large allen key that fits inside the hop-up barrel and then wrap some metal sand-paper around the key. Then start to spin.... It takes a LONG time if your paper is not very coarse however. Eventually you will have it so that the barrel and hop-up rubber will slide in and out easily.

November 20th, 2005, 01:38	#5
mcguyver Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Northern Alberta	there is no such thing as gear timing. timing implies that 2 or more gears must be doing things that need to coincide with each other to require timing. only the sector gear does interlocking work between the tappet/nozzle and piston. it is not adjustable (unless you start to re-machine things). there are other articles posted in these forums that involve this myth and they go into much more detail on why there is no such thing as timing. btw, there is nothing inside the gear box that can cause misfeeding or jamming unless the tappet, nozzle or cylinder head is physically broken. too much hop-up can cause these problems. try turning your hop all the way off and see what happens (assuming you haven't already done that).

November 21st, 2005, 13:16	#10
ILLusion GBB Whisperer Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto	starting from the muzzle of the barrel: - Gold ring - hop up chamber/barrel clip - hop up rubber - hop up chamber does that make sense? the ring is used to stabilize the barrel inside the chamber. __________________ *Advanced Airsoft Armaments and Enhancements* Quick to the gun, sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas Accuracy, Power, Speed

November 23rd, 2005, 09:08	#12
ILLusion GBB Whisperer Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto	yeah, it took me about 2 hours to do mine and I used a fairly rough file __________________ *Advanced Airsoft Armaments and Enhancements* Quick to the gun, sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas Accuracy, Power, Speed

December 6th, 2005, 22:09	#14
Droc Guest Trader rating	yah, plastic sucks bigtime Ill never buy TM again unless they come full metal. All these new people asking what guys to buy, i always recommend against TM now. Internals are fine, but its the externals that cost money. going metal is the only way.

G&P once pice hop up problems - help please

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