What m4 to get? GBBR / AEG

[.Zo]

Originally Posted by BennyBoy

Don't have personal experience with WE yet but his iss what I keep reading ...

Side A
-Replace all inner working with Ra-Tech
-Costs a lot more
-CNC parts may prove to be very reliable but concerns about hardness of different materials rubbing against each other that may cause wear to parts no upgraded
-Upgrade parts may not be to spec so may require mods and/or cause other issues

Side B
-Run it stock till it breaks then replace it with more stock parts
-Stock parts are cheap
-Gun supposedly runs smoother with stock parts and no issues with out of normal wear from material compatibilities

Welp I guess I'm going with the woc

So many choices man, I just hate that the woc has such small mags and only g&p makes them

EDIT: HOLY TITS THE MAGS ARE SO EXPENSIVE WTF I could have a polarstar for that price

[Kos-Mos]

Originally Posted by .Zo

Welp I guess I'm going with the woc

So many choices man, I just hate that the woc has such small mags and only g&p makes them

EDIT: HOLY TITS THE MAGS ARE SO EXPENSIVE WTF I could have a polarstar for that price

What did you think?

Also all the GBBR mags are the same size as real mags... I don't really get why you say they are tiny. BB load? 30rnds is the standard too... makes you count your shots, like the real thing.

Standard price is around 40$ a mag. You usually need about 8-10 (I have 8 and find it's not enough for long scenarios, so I bought an extra 12).

Yes, you can get a P* for around 650$, but it's not in the same class. Really consistent, yes, but no recoil/feel at all. Good for support weapons or sniper/marksman rifles (I plan on building a SR-25 with one when I get the budget).

As for availability, I think ATF is being an ass with the WE M4 GBBRs... something about "If you are an armorer, have access to a lathe, have a restricted full-auto trigger group and extensive knowledge of the AR system, you can rig the gun to fire one bullet in [full auto] before the gun explodes on you.", so the classified the rifle as a fully-automatic rifle, and banned or something...

The WE lower receivers only needed to replace the upper with a complete weapon upper, and bolt catch removed to fire.
The G&P receivers had to me machined and shimmed to fit a M-16 automatic trigger assembly, and because some nutjob ATF weapon smith managed to do it, it became an automatic firearm...

However, to give you an idea of how much the guys in charge know about this, the spokesperson inserted the magasine BACKWARDS (curved towards the back/trigger) at the press conference.

U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives

Office of the Director
Washington, DC 20226

18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3): DEFINITIONS (FIREARM)
27 CFR 478.11: DEFINITIONS (FIREARM FRAME OR RECEIVER)

Air gun (i.e., a gun that expels a projectile using compressed air, carbon dioxide, propane, or similar gas) replicas of AR/M-16 variant firearms that provide housing for a hammer and firing mechanism with substantially the same design as AR/M-16 variant firearm receivers, and mounting points for attaching an upper assembly containing a barrel and bolt, are "firearm frames or receivers," and are, therefore, "firearms," as that term is defined by 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3)(B), and its implementing regulation, 27 CFR 478.11.

ATF Rul. 2010-4

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has received requests for evaluation and classification of air gun replicas of AR/M-16 variant firearms. Specifically, ATF was asked whether these air guns are considered "firearms" under Federal law.

The M-16 is a military style combat machinegun. The AR style firearm is a semi-automatic version of the M-16, and both are produced using a variety of model designations. ATF evaluated two air gun replicas of AR/M-16 variant firearms. These particular air guns are manufactured with non-ferrous metal and duplicate the appearance of various types of AR and M-16 rifles. They are designed to expel projectiles using compressed air, carbon dioxide, propane, or similar gas.

The first sample ATF examined was an air gun replica of an M-16 rifle that has the physical features of an M-16 firearm. It has all M-16 fire-control assembly pin holes formed or indexed for fire-control components (i.e., hammer, trigger, disconnector, selector lever, and machinegun sear). It utilizes fire-control components that differ only slightly in design from M-16 fire-control components. The receiver of this air gun is identical to an M-16 receiver, except for two features. The slot for the bolt-stop has been altered to make room for a proprietary bolt-stop by reducing the height of the wall separating the fire control cavity from the magazine well. Also, the ledge has been removed from the fire-control cavity upon which an M-16 machinegun sear would normally sit.

In conducting the evaluation of sample #1, the upper assembly was removed, the existing bolt-stop was removed to allow movement of the hammer, and an M-16 upper assembly was installed. A test fire was then performed with the original automatic fire sear, and the test demonstrated that the sample was capable of firing a conventional .223 caliber cartridge semi-automatically, expelling a projectile by the action of an explosive. The original automatic fire sear was then replaced with an M-16 machinegun sear. A second test firing was performed, and the test demonstrated that the sample was capable of firing semi-automatically, expelling a projectile by the action of an explosive. Sample #1 did not expel more than one projectile by a single function of the trigger and is not a "machinegun" as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5845(b).

The second sample ATF examined was an air gun replica of an M-16 rifle that has the physical features of an M-16 firearm. It has all M-16 fire-control assembly pin holes formed or indexed, and utilizes a proprietary drop-in fire-control mechanism that did not include an automatic-fire sear. The receiver of this air gun is identical to an M-16 receiver, except for two dimensions. The length between the takedown pins is approximately 1/8 longer than on an M-16 receiver, and the width of the fire-control cavity is approximately 0.31 greater than an M-16 receiver.

ATF conducted a test of this air gun. In conducting the evaluation of this sample, the upper assembly was removed, the proprietary drop-in fire-control mechanism was removed, the proprietary bolt-stop was removed, the indexed pin holes were drilled to allow installation of M-16 fire-control components, and an M-16 upper assembly was installed. A test fire was then performed, and the test demonstrated that the sample was capable of firing semi-automatically, expelling a projectile by the action of an explosive.

The Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3), and its implementing regulation, 27 CFR 478.11, define the term "firearm," in part, as "any weapon...including a starter gun...which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon..." Under 27 CFR 478.11, the term "firearm frame or receiver" is defined as "[t]hat part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel."

The air gun replicas of AR/M-16 variant firearms examined have the appearance, dimensions, and substantially the same design as AR/M-16 variant firearm receivers and completed weapons. The air gun replicas provide housing for a hammer and firing mechanism, and mounting points for attaching an upper assembly containing a barrel and bolt. Because the air gun replicas provide housing with substantially the same design as AR/M-16 variant firearm receivers, they incorporate firearm receivers. Moreover, though not necessary for classification, once the upper assemblies (and, in the second sample, fire-control components) were installed and test fired, they both expelled projectiles by the action of an explosive. Because the air gun replicas of the AR/M-16 variant firearms incorporate firearm receivers, they are "firearms," as defined by the Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3), and its
implementing regulation, 27 CFR 478.11.

Held, air gun (i.e., a gun that expels a projectile using compressed air, carbon dioxide, propane, or similar gas) replicas of AR/M-16 variant firearms that provide housing for a hammer and firing mechanism with substantially the same design as AR/M-16 variant firearm receivers, and mounting points for attaching an upper assembly containing a barrel and bolt, are "firearm frames or receivers," and are, therefore, "firearms," as that term is defined by 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3)(B), and its implementing regulation, 27 CFR 478.11.

To the extent this ruling is inconsistent with any prior classifications, they are hereby superseded.

Date approved: November 5, 2010

Kenneth E. Melson
Deputy Director

According to Mike Vanderboegh the ATF Pressroom admitted to him by phone November 12th, 2010 11:27 am ET that ATF Ruling 2010-4, has been rescinded! This must have been considered so embarrassing by some in the Department of Justice that it has now disappeared from the ATF website. According to Google, it was there on November 9th when they cached it. However, it is now gone.

[BennyBoy]

My mags were 55-65 a piece and I bought 9 additional

[.Zo]

Originally Posted by BennyBoy

My mags were 55-65 a piece and I bought 9 additional

craziness.

This guy is selling a lightly used lm4 with 2 mags for 350 so I might just buy that to take some of the cost off my shoulders lol

[Danneichh]

Thats not a bad deal, just remember there aren't a whole lot of aftermarket parts for it. If you're in California, why not check out Airsoft GI? They've got a bunch of LM4s that they sell, all with different rail sets and such. They've been pushing the LM4 for a while now. Plus, they have warranty.

[.Zo]

Originally Posted by Danneichh

Thats not a bad deal, just remember there aren't a whole lot of aftermarket parts for it. If you're in California, why not check out Airsoft GI? They've got a bunch of LM4s that they sell, all with different rail sets and such. They've been pushing the LM4 for a while now. Plus, they have warranty.

It still has the kwa warranty. I dunno I would buy one new from AGI but this one has two mags and has little wear so I figured the mags alone make it worth it

[MaybeStopCalling]

Just remember the warranty is void the moment you start doing a detailed disassembly of the rifle.

[redneck12]

And you have to use green gas and KWA bb's and I believe you also void the warranty if you remove the orange tip.

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by Green Synergy

Just remember the warranty is void the moment you start doing a detailed disassembly of the rifle.

The warranty was voided when it left US. Read the pamphlet, its only for US customer.

[K3vX]

Location: California
That might explain it.