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Tactics, Techniques and Procedures

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Old December 18th, 2014, 18:16   #46
naminator
 
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I used to work road construction. 13-14 hours labor, for me it was mostly walking, pounding steaks in the side of the highway or working pipe crew.

We used to get to the site for 6:30 (30 minute drive so we left at 6) have a cup of coffee and start work. I would take maybe and hour break spread out through the day then 30 minutes to our camp at about 7:30 ish and then we got drunk. Like missing a shoe 20 year old white girl drunk (never has so much cheap whiskey been consumed). We would crash around midnight for a few hours then get up the next day and do it again for 6 days, 5 nights.

Food wise I couldn't carry much. I alternated water with water and Gatorade powder, Granola/power bars, the occasional orange and a couple sandwiches. To conserve precious space, I would freeze a bottle of water, wrap it in paper towel and use it was an icepack if necessary.

I also smoked excessively, drank every night, consumed caffeinated beverages on the job (pop or coffee) and ate tons of crap food and I was fine. Mind you I fell asleep in the crew van on the way to the job site holding a coffee and a lit smoke (it went out safely in my fingers).

So what you need to know:

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1+1 = 2
Were you maybe expecting 1+1 = donut?
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Old December 21st, 2014, 19:59   #47
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Hydration is key.. I usually just had water and kept the sugar/salt packs from the field rats and added to my water if I needed a boost.. Obviously physical fitness helps a lot also. Some of the things I kept in my TAC or ruck for ex's were proteinbars/energy bar..chocolate bar(by the time I ever got to eat it usually melted and not very nice but did the trick).. Red bull or two.. Last by not least Tabasco as most of the feild rats were pretty blah.. Mind you if your doing a 24hr game and are in possession of food and your in a QRF or trying for a lil Shuteye keep in mind racoons are very mythical creatures and can drag away the 40lbs of rucksack your using for a pillow

Had to edit because I forgot to mention.. 24hr game w/ lots of walking (possiblely wet terrain) pack spare set of boots and at least 2/3 pairs of socks + some foot powder.. If you happen to get your feet soaked 2hrs in the rest of the 22hrs won't be so fun..

Last edited by Splinter; December 21st, 2014 at 20:11..
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Old December 25th, 2014, 09:39   #48
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Ah, okay. I remember seeing a video about someone's name that I recognized. I was just too lazy to go back and find who it was. :P
theres no way it could have been that Gear guy.... /shifty eyes
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Old January 10th, 2015, 04:37   #49
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Originally Posted by naminator View Post
I used to work road construction. 13-14 hours labor, for me it was mostly walking, pounding steaks in the side of the highway or working pipe crew.

We used to get to the site for 6:30 (30 minute drive so we left at 6) have a cup of coffee and start work. I would take maybe and hour break spread out through the day then 30 minutes to our camp at about 7:30 ish and then we got drunk. Like missing a shoe 20 year old white girl drunk (never has so much cheap whiskey been consumed). We would crash around midnight for a few hours then get up the next day and do it again for 6 days, 5 nights.

Food wise I couldn't carry much. I alternated water with water and Gatorade powder, Granola/power bars, the occasional orange and a couple sandwiches. To conserve precious space, I would freeze a bottle of water, wrap it in paper towel and use it was an icepack if necessary.

I also smoked excessively, drank every night, consumed caffeinated beverages on the job (pop or coffee) and ate tons of crap food and I was fine. Mind you I fell asleep in the crew van on the way to the job site holding a coffee and a lit smoke (it went out safely in my fingers).

So what you need to know:

How old were you when those events were taking place ? I've done the same for a couple of years while working construction out of town. Every morning you tell yourself: "Today I'm going to sleep as soon as we get back to the motel!" Riiiiight... When I was in my 20's, I could do it 7-14 days in a row, still can do it in my 30's once in a blue moon but age does play big difference. Also, keep in mind that everybody has difference tolerance when it comes to abusing your body.
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Old January 10th, 2015, 07:05   #50
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Something that saved my girlfriend last November was Shoe shaped "Hand" warmers.
Once the temp dropped below 2ºC, she couldn't stop rubbing it in my face how warm her feet were.
Hand warmers also work decently well shoved into a buffer tube to keep a battery warm in up to -10ºC weather.
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Old January 20th, 2015, 18:29   #51
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Hand warmers on the back of the neck are a huge morale boost when you're freezing in the rain. You'd be surprised how much warmer you're tricked into thinking you are.
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Old January 20th, 2015, 18:46   #52
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How old were you when those events were taking place ? I've done the same for a couple of years while working construction out of town. Every morning you tell yourself: "Today I'm going to sleep as soon as we get back to the motel!" Riiiiight... When I was in my 20's, I could do it 7-14 days in a row, still can do it in my 30's once in a blue moon but age does play big difference. Also, keep in mind that everybody has difference tolerance when it comes to abusing your body.
I was 22 I think? We always said "Lets get wasted and troll for poon!" But this was a second rate campground, in a third rate location. Seriously the closest "store" was 45 minutes away and it sold gas for $1.50. We had no TV, limited internet, no electricity most nights, no cell reception and nothing to do. Everybody showed up on the weekends when we went home.

We would get hammered ass drunk, eat canned stew and just glaze over before going to sleep. You would step outside and get eaten alive by mosquitoes. Seriously at one point the banded together and carried of a golden retriever. So we ended up in the cabin most nights, it would get dark and boring and we would drink and sleep lol.
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Old January 20th, 2015, 23:38   #53
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This is a leadership issue. A very important principle of leadership is monitoring your soldier's health and welfare. I could go on for pages about it but simply put; as a leader your are responsible for your soldiers' well being.

Not ensuring things like water and nourishment intake, as well as sleep and rest are adequate can result in injuries and deterioration of a person ability to function.

Leaders must take these things into consideration when planning. Having people stay awake when it is not needed is unacceptable. Inspections of your soldiers gear (to ensure they have enough water and food as well as acceptable clothing, etc. for the conditions you expect to encounter)) before starting the OP should be an SOP.

For leaders during a long session sleep is paramount to making sound and timely decisions. At all levels there should be both an IC as well as a 2IC who (when in a defensive posture for example) take turns resting so you always have commander present and alert.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 00:13   #54
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While I get what you're saying, and agree, I'm a little reticent to make any direct comparison to 'soldiers' or 'soldiering'.

I put it down to "If I'm not shittered, am hydrated, and eat real food, I'll have a lot more fun. Especially if I'm shittered".
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Old February 5th, 2015, 14:57   #55
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When teams are evenly matched, its great to relax and rest up, shoot the shit, get the cooker going. Coffee brewed. That HQ camping kind of stuff can be lots of fun too...

But when teams arent evenly matched, and your team is losing bodies. Thats the worst. Ive been part of teams where I felt like if we stop for too long to rest, the other team wont have anyone to shoot at lol... and that sucks, because you miss out on all that HQ camping stuff...

My general rest/sleep time is between 1-3. No sense catching a blink while theres still light outside. I dont have night vision and most games are their slowest at the darkest part of the day. I like to sleep as long as i can without effecting the game.

If I can sleep 2 hours and both sides are going just fine without me thats fantastic, thats optimal. If I can only get 30mins to an hour before the other team wonders what happened to our team, well, that sucks, but I just put myself in the other teams shoes and know how much it sucks to win the game with 6 hours still left in the op.
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Old February 10th, 2015, 16:57   #56
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A few little pointers, more generalised than specific:

Drink a few more litres of water the day before (and 1L before you go to bed the night before) a long OP. No point "water loading" weeks or even a few days prior as it doesn't work.

DO NOT oversleep/undersleep prior to a big match. Just sleep to what your body usually takes. You'll feel worse if you stray from your normal cycle. Mind you, quality of sleep outweighs quantity, so have a hot chocolate or something before you shut your eyes and try to stay away from electronics at least an hour prior.

As for sleeping during a game, TBH if you can't go for more than 18 hours without sleep, it's not a sleep issue it's a fitness issue. BUT, if you must sleep, just use your head. Hit up a SL or PC or even someone who is "in the know" as to what's going on. You may find that you can sneak a few minutes here or there. IF you can help it, try not to sleep for more than 40mins. This is basically a magic number, anything less and you usually don't feel rested and anything more (if you are awoken abruptly), you'll feel more lethargic.

NOTE: Make sure that you and your squad have sufficiently cleared an area or enemy BEFORE you take short halts. Take the extra time to clear that last room or clear just over that ridgeline. It'll help prevent you being caught with your pants down.

Keep hydrated during the entirety of the day that an OP is on. If you find yourself being thirsty, you're already dehydrated. Just sip along every 20mins or so. You want to have either clear or a light yellow coloured urine, and piss between 5-7 times a day (that's optimal). If you have sports drinks like Powerade or Gatorade drink the suckers. Depending on how hot the day is try to keep it to 1L water and then drink a 750ml sports drink. Your body needs the extra salts that water alone doesn't provide. And that brings me to my next point.

Take snacks with you. Things like Cliff bars and protein bars are a lifesaver. I can't tell you how many times small morsels of food like that have saved my ass during a 36-72h OP in the boonies. It's not just about hunger, they also have vitamins and minerals that help your body function during excessive working periods.

Kit checks, check your kit EVERY TIME you find yourself having a small break. Check your weapon, mags, equipment, water/food (so you can ration it if need be), everything. Keep a mental note on what you have on you. What mags are full and what are empty and where they are on your rig.

Once you've given yourself a once over, check your mates equipment. Check to see if they have had anything to eat or anything to drink. Distribute ammo if applicable. The onus is on the squad to keep each other combat ready and combat effective. In saying that, the squad is only as effective as the weakest link. Having a good skill set within your squad gives the individual within it the ability to trust that the arcs that they aren't covering, are being covered by someone else.

Kit checks; self checks and buddy checks.
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Old February 18th, 2015, 14:12   #57
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18 Hours

You got that right Battleborn, I have been on Military Operation before with little or no sleep...I have stated this to FORCE RECON Members and too ppl who have attended the Nightfall series...You should be physically fit to endure at least 18 hours of combat simulation, especially when the main fighting could happen during the night or at dawn and dusk...I find now especially with CQB OPS alot of ppl like to sit back at the respawn for rest breaks and talk about their last contact as oppose to rearm, replinish fluids/food and get back out there. I can understand if you take time to make a contigency plan to assist in Coy mission...but the whole Squad or Section can not be held back by the few who have peronal admin or are tapped out. Command loses OP's in my observation in Airsoft MILSIM sometimes by not their Battle Plan but the lack of ppl out in the Fight.

Last edited by QKLee11; February 18th, 2015 at 14:15..
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Old February 18th, 2015, 14:44   #58
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I find now especially with CQB OPS alot of ppl like to sit back at the respawn for rest breaks and talk about their last contact
That's something I want to post about in the airsoft pet peeves thread.
I have sympathy for the people who just got back from a 2 hour engagement, and had a 30 minute walk back to spawn. But first priority should be to prepare yourself to get back onto the field. If there's time to relax, then you can relax after. If command turns you around and sends you right back out, then you head right back out. You'll feel good about yourself if you force yourself right back out.

Last year the squad that I led was coming back from an exhausting engagement, and were really looking forward to getting a good meal and 30 minutes of rest. We talked to command over the radio to arrange it, and everything. We were so glad to be taking a load off, and getting something other than snacks. When we dragged ourselves into spawn, command told us we were losing an important point, and sent us right back out. It sucked balls, but it felt good to be pushed like that.

Part of it, too, is that those who lead, need to be firm. Command should say "I need this point held, and I want you to do it". The squad leader should be able to give an accurate assessment of his squad, and if there is nothing major (eg someone hasn't been hydrating correctly, or they're diabetic, or their asthma is acting up, or they may have frost bite, or what have you - it's only a game), then he should be disciplined enough to lead by example. The squad leader may be exhausted, but he'll need to be firm enough to go back to his guys and get them moving. And none of this airsoft time. If it's been 6 minutes since the squad leader said "we move in 5 mikes", the squad should be 1 minute down the trail. The first time you do that, a few guys may be short some ammo, or not have their snacks properly packed, and need to rely on their team mates. But do that enough times in an OP, and your squad will know that you 5 minutes is 5 minutes, and they'd better be ready in those 5 minutes.

People may look at you as a dick if you just, out of nowhere, start telling people to be ready, or start the squad moving while you're still sitting back trying to get some BBs into an uncooperative mag. Or if you're in command, and you start telling squads they need to be certain places within tight times, or expecting them to be able to run on little rest (that is all contingent on being a good commander, though. You ARE a dick, if you just arbitrarily send an exhausted squad to go running off into a pointless fight for shits and giggles). But if you make it clear to people at the beginning, what you will be expecting of them, people will take orders much better.

My little spiel to the squads I lead are pieced together from what I pick up from others that I've played under. Somewhere in the spiel, you should include what you expect from your squad, and what the squad can expect from you. You can expect the squad to follow your orders, and to respect given times. Your squad can expect that there will be times where you will push them (amongst many other things).

The point that I was leading to, is to repeat what was already said in the thread: that good leadership can go a long way to keeping you going in a milsim. If someone's calling for "volunteers" to go back out and fight, you may think "eh, I'll go next time. I'm comfy here". If command points at you, and says "you, and the rest of your squad, are moving out in 5 mikes. Get your shit ready." you don't have much of a choice but to push yourself past your limits, and come out feeling fucking good about yourself. I have a better story about "turning my squad around and heading right back out instead of having lunch", than I would have been able to tell someone while I was lounging around resting instead.
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Old February 18th, 2015, 21:09   #59
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That's something I want to post about in the airsoft pet peeves thread.
I have sympathy for the people who just got back from a 2 hour engagement, and had a 30 minute walk back to spawn. But first priority should be to prepare yourself to get back onto the field. If there's time to relax, then you can relax after. If command turns you around and sends you right back out, then you head right back out. You'll feel good about yourself if you force yourself right back out.

Last year the squad that I led was coming back from an exhausting engagement, and were really looking forward to getting a good meal and 30 minutes of rest. We talked to command over the radio to arrange it, and everything. We were so glad to be taking a load off, and getting something other than snacks. When we dragged ourselves into spawn, command told us we were losing an important point, and sent us right back out. It sucked balls, but it felt good to be pushed like that.

Part of it, too, is that those who lead, need to be firm. Command should say "I need this point held, and I want you to do it". The squad leader should be able to give an accurate assessment of his squad, and if there is nothing major (eg someone hasn't been hydrating correctly, or they're diabetic, or their asthma is acting up, or they may have frost bite, or what have you - it's only a game), then he should be disciplined enough to lead by example. The squad leader may be exhausted, but he'll need to be firm enough to go back to his guys and get them moving. And none of this airsoft time. If it's been 6 minutes since the squad leader said "we move in 5 mikes", the squad should be 1 minute down the trail. The first time you do that, a few guys may be short some ammo, or not have their snacks properly packed, and need to rely on their team mates. But do that enough times in an OP, and your squad will know that you 5 minutes is 5 minutes, and they'd better be ready in those 5 minutes.

People may look at you as a dick if you just, out of nowhere, start telling people to be ready, or start the squad moving while you're still sitting back trying to get some BBs into an uncooperative mag. Or if you're in command, and you start telling squads they need to be certain places within tight times, or expecting them to be able to run on little rest (that is all contingent on being a good commander, though. You ARE a dick, if you just arbitrarily send an exhausted squad to go running off into a pointless fight for shits and giggles). But if you make it clear to people at the beginning, what you will be expecting of them, people will take orders much better.

My little spiel to the squads I lead are pieced together from what I pick up from others that I've played under. Somewhere in the spiel, you should include what you expect from your squad, and what the squad can expect from you. You can expect the squad to follow your orders, and to respect given times. Your squad can expect that there will be times where you will push them (amongst many other things).

The point that I was leading to, is to repeat what was already said in the thread: that good leadership can go a long way to keeping you going in a milsim. If someone's calling for "volunteers" to go back out and fight, you may think "eh, I'll go next time. I'm comfy here". If command points at you, and says "you, and the rest of your squad, are moving out in 5 mikes. Get your shit ready." you don't have much of a choice but to push yourself past your limits, and come out feeling fucking good about yourself. I have a better story about "turning my squad around and heading right back out instead of having lunch", than I would have been able to tell someone while I was lounging around resting instead.
Well said...MILSIM, your going to experience fatigue and hunger...just like real soldiers. This is part of it, not just patroling, squirmishing, fighting through the objective or clearing a room or hallway...you could be at an Observation Post for 4 hours and all your doing is observing/recording /radioing intel back to command...alot of variables then just shooting shit
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Old February 19th, 2015, 15:16   #60
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going 18 hours. 24 hours... not really a problem. The problem for me (and could be for others) is driving 4 hours, then playing 18 hours, and then driving 4 hours back home...

the time I use to sleep during a game is only to charge my battery for the drive home. thats it...

if the game is within an hour of where I live, I can do it. But 2+ hours out and Im head nodding the drive back.

I do different scenarios each game. Like do the whole 18 hours, then drive to the nearest onroute after the game and sleep for an hour or 2.

I find that around 3am there isnt much going on in the games Ive been to, and seem like the ideal time to recharge my battery for the drive home after the game.

Now, if I ever do a game where I drive 5+ hours, I'll probably be camping or getting a hotel for after the game. And then sleep isnt a factor at all
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