What's your rate of fire?

[Gigaknight]

Originally Posted by LUTNIT

If you ask me its far more realistic as with a high ROF you can actually punch through grass and leaves more like real bullets.

That would constitute a high FPS set up, no? A high ROF means you're just spraying bullets.

I go for realism but daaaamn it's always nice to see a bb hose, unless it's the PPP Strafer...

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by LUTNIT

One Ottawa guy is running 390-400fps and around 34rps. People fear his gun since you can't use a bush or stand of tall grass as hard cover against it like you can a lower ROF AEG. You actually need to find REAL hard cover.

My AUG runs 400 FPS and it's the same deal. I use 0.28's (~330 FPS) and no one can hide from me in grass and brush. I hit people that can't hit me.
And my ROF a lot lower than that. Probably about 10 or 15 or something.

[Dracheous]

Originally Posted by Gigaknight

That would constitute a high FPS set up, no? A high ROF means you're just spraying bullets.

I go for realism but daaaamn it's always nice to see a bb hose, unless it's the PPP Strafer...

Can really hurt someone, and there goes simulation. No, LUTNIT's veiw/point is valid, a 400fps round will deflect off of brush and thick grass easily. Now a 5.56 will continue through these same objects with little to no deflection. So to remedy this, saturation fire to get a few through and ensure the kill is a quick SAFE way to get around using 700fps guns to penetrate brush. Especially with the thick low lying brush that Ontario has.

Running a 21rps gun today that had no hop up ((had to turn off or would jam and no other gun to use so just dealt with it)). With little range, on the 360 fps it shot I was able to make several kills today only because I could saturate an area with fire.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, stock guns come out the box firing faster than their real steel counter parts, where is the "milsim" in that?

[LUTNIT]

Gigaknight, A high FPS setup would be more realistic, but the limit at most fields is 400fps so you can't do anything about that without cheating. Thats why I said if I can bring a ~3000fps real gun to a game, real ROF is fine, but since the rules limit us to 400fps I use ROF to compensate.

Styrak, are the people you are shooting at also using 400fps guns with .28's? I shoot at lots of people that can't hit me back but the majority of the time its because they are using stock guns/lightly upgraded guns and .20's or .25's. With my M14 at 398fps on semi with .28's I can regularly nail people who don't stand a chance of hitting me back but their guns aren't as close to the limit and they use lighter BB's. When playing against people who I know are using 390-400fps guns and .28's my M14 is no better than them. But when I bust out 25+ rps things change drastically.

[Gigaknight]

By high FPS I'm talking 400FPS (on 0.2's), standard field stuff. Did you not read what Styrak said? He's using heavy BBs (0.28) instead of 0.2's, sure, a high ROF will hit your target, but it's far more efficient to use heavier BB with an appropriate FPS (again, Styrak said that WITH 0.28's his gun is shooting about ~330fps and nothing can stop him. :P)

I'm not trying to argue, just reiterating my point.

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by LUTNIT

Gigaknight, A high FPS setup would be more realistic, but the limit at most fields is 400fps so you can't do anything about that without cheating. Thats why I said if I can bring a ~3000fps real gun to a game, real ROF is fine, but since the rules limit us to 400fps I use ROF to compensate.

Styrak, are the people you are shooting at also using 400fps guns with .28's? I shoot at lots of people that can't hit me back but the majority of the time its because they are using stock guns/lightly upgraded guns and .20's or .25's. With my M14 at 398fps on semi with .28's I can regularly nail people who don't stand a chance of hitting me back but their guns aren't as close to the limit and they use lighter BB's. When playing against people who I know are using 390-400fps guns and .28's my M14 is no better than them. But when I bust out 25+ rps things change drastically.

Well obviously no, they aren't. They could be shooting higher ROF though, since I have an M120 spring and no ROF upgrades. So a stock gun (or the people that are shooting at me's guns) probably has a higher ROF.

And why waste BB's and have to reload tons with your high ROF?

[LUTNIT]

@ Gigaknight
But when everyone is using 400fps guns and .28's, you can gain a large advantage with a higher ROF. This is normally the case at games I go to, having a 400fps gun is nothing special, neither is using .28's (which I do use.)

@ Styrak
Exactly, I don't use just ROF often, I try to stay around 380+ fps AND a high ROF. Only my indoor guns (JG M4 and AK) are under that fps. Its not wasting BB's when I hit the target when I otherwise wouldn't have. When you are putting 1.49J .28's down range through some REALLY thick grass, maybe 1 in 10 gets through, and then maybe it takes 2-3 that get through to actually hit the guy. If I can get those BB's out there faster than he can react then hes hit and no longer a threat.

You both seem to be fixed on high rate of fire OR maximum fps, I use both since either one alone isn't as effective as both combined. When I quote muzzle velocities I am referring to .20's since that is what field limits are set with. I use .28's when actually playing. Also I know that maximizing the effectiveness of your gun does not make you a good player. I get killed lots by people with 400fps guns and .28's and much lower rates of fire because they are just much better at maneuvering, teamwork, and sneaking *cough* ODA 363 *cough*

[Gigaknight]

Well, a hybrid setup (high ROF, high FPS) is pretty harsh on the internals even if you have uber parts, hence why one or the other in the long run is something to look at.

However, if everyone is doing 400fps on 0.2 or the equivalent with heavier BB's, then yes; a high ROF is useful unless you're going through a midcap in a second (High caps have AIDS... and I like not having AIDS).

Although obviously you're going to get a major advantage if you're using heavier BB's. :P

[Ronan]

Ridiculous ROF kills milsim.

400FPS + heavier BB's will do the job w/o having 50 bb's smack you in the head because someone though it would be nice to tape a giant battery on his MP5 and add high speed gears.

[Styrak]

Keep in mind as well having both high FPS and high ROF adds alot of strain/wear or prone-to-breakage-ness to AEGs, especially V2's.

[LUTNIT]

lol, AIDS, yeah, can't say I like that either. I run midcaps normally and can usually get at least a dozen bursts from each one. STAR mags when I practice really good trigger control I can get 3-5 bursts, or one if I have loads of mags to spare and cover/time to reload.

As for internals, yeah, its hell on everything inside the mechbox. Thats why I never bring fewer than 2 main guns to a game and usually have my bone stock TM MP5k as my "oh shit" gun. I have already stripped 3 pistons, 2 sets of gears (one was a SystemA all helical highspeed set), melted one selector plate with the heat from the current, and currently I think I blew the contacts in my trigger switch apart again from the current. I run dual 9.6V batteries to maximum the current that the wires inside the mechbox can support (that is the limiting factor once you get enough battery juice) and it seems that stock contacts are not designed for it. Most motors on the other hand can draw quite a bit more amperage than the wires can handle. So far the only thing that has blown in a game is my trigger switch, everything else has broken while testing on my work desk.

Originally Posted by Ronan

Ridiculous ROF kills milsim.

Ah, now you are mistaking role play with realism. Milsim is somewhere in between. If you want the same ROF as the real gun but with a pathetic (compared to real bullets) 400fps, then you are doing it for the role play aspect (I'm not talking D&D or anything here.) Milsim is all about getting into character, playing like real units fight, and acting out parts essentially. I play airsoft as a sport in and of itself which closely mimics real combat (at least more so than many other sports) but don't worry about things like all real gear, real rate of fire, copying special forces loadouts exactly even if some of the gear is useless in airsoft, etc.

[Gigaknight]

Well there we go then bud, that statement just proves all; airsoft is entirely about personal preference. Again, I strive for realism, so I go with a lower ROF and a higher FPS; I'm not made out of money so I can't afford to be replacing parts every few games.

I say, to each his own... Though this just made me think that maybe there should be ROF caps at MILSIM games? Not every game, but milsim games; where people aim for realism. :P *I'm putting on my flame retardant suit now...*

[LUTNIT]

ROF caps at milsim games would make sense, but then again to tell the truth in two years I have never been to a real milsim game (not for lack of trying.) I have been to many where groups get into the role heavily or maybe one entire side, but never everyone. I have done the milsim thing and its fun for what it is but unless everyone is doing it I find its ruined. Milsim is FAR from just realistic rates of fire and realcap mags, its all about the attitude and intent of the players.

[Skladfin]

zomg wtf bbq roflcoptor

[Gigaknight]

Originally Posted by Skladfin

zomg wtf bbq roflcoptor

Sweet something of somewhere, his post is legendary... I think we should just STFUAJPG.