Year Of The GBBR....or just a stinky smell that's passing through...

[NVC]

Yeah that would be great if we got a new section. One with tech pictures and another one for help.

Karma_ , I've been using the TSD .28's same as you. I havent had any bb's choppin yet, but I did the crush test on 10 of them and they all failed. Going to try different brand and move up to .30's.

[Karma_]

Originally Posted by NVC

Karma_ , I've been using the TSD .28's same as you. I havent had any bb's choppin yet, but I did the crush test on 10 of them and they all failed. Going to try different brand and move up to .30's.

Hmm...good to know. I'll be looking at some .30's.

[EggChen]

There's alot of fluff on this thread to wade through.

Kevorkian-

I'm thinking of pre-ordering the Ino M4A1 2009 from Redwolf, I live in Ireland PT and should be able to get one of these fairly easily if they ship from their UK warehouse. Any specifics on why the Ino 2008 sucks? What broke?

I think it would make a fun plinker...

Egg

[KEVORKIAN]

Originally Posted by EggChen

There's alot of fluff on this thread to wade through.

Kevorkian-

I'm thinking of pre-ordering the Ino M4A1 2009 from Redwolf, I live in Ireland PT and should be able to get one of these fairly easily if they ship from their UK warehouse. Any specifics on why the Ino 2008 sucks? What broke?

I think it would make a fun plinker...

Egg

It wasn't what broke, it was more like what would make it work consistently. I tried numerous aftermarket internal parts from A-Z but I could not find a happy medium...AT ALL!
Out of the box it was a gas hog, there was no such thing as full auto!
It would often double feed & jam! I got frustrated very fast, but I did learn a lot about the GBBR and how it ticks!
Now I have 2 custom built Prime bodied GBBR's and I wouldn't trade them for the world!
I have to say, if you want a great gun you have to be willing to spend some serious $$$$.

I hope your 09' INO M4 performs better out of the box, especially since the R&D dept worked it over from top to bottom...

My problem is I still smell a lemon...but maybe that's still leftover from my 08'!

Good luck with your purchase!

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by EggChen

There's alot of fluff on this thread to wade through.

Kevorkian-

I'm thinking of pre-ordering the Ino M4A1 2009 from Redwolf, I live in Ireland PT and should be able to get one of these fairly easily if they ship from their UK warehouse. Any specifics on why the Ino 2008 sucks? What broke?

I think it would make a fun plinker...

Egg

Id wait on that 2009. Common sense would dictate that if 08 sucked, i would want to wait for some user feedback on the 09.

If you can't wait, grab a AGM and stick a G&P hop up + tightbore and a ra-tech NPAS bolt.

[PRELUDE]

Originally Posted by KEVORKIAN

It wasn't what broke, it was more like what would make it work consistently. I tried numerous aftermarket internal parts from A-Z but I could not find a happy medium...AT ALL!
Out of the box it was a gas hog, there was no such thing as full auto!
It would often double feed & jam! I got frustrated very fast, but I did learn a lot about the GBBR and how it ticks!
Now I have 2 custom built Prime bodied GBBR's and I wouldn't trade them for the world!
I have to say, if you want a great gun you have to be willing to spend some serious $$$$.

I hope your 09' INO M4 performs better out of the box, especially since the R&D dept worked it over from top to bottom...

My problem is I still smell a lemon...but maybe that's still leftover from my 08'!

Good luck with your purchase!

i happen to be the current owner of Kev's INO'08. indeed, it wasn't performing consistently when i first acquired it. i almost gave up on it and decided to custom build a new GBBR based on what i've seen internally on the INO.

i did manage to build another GBBR, a G&P sniper in m4 platform, and decided to look back on what exactly was the problem on the INO. all it was the bolt not sitting properly; it had a little play (say 2-3mm). the buffer can only go so far because of the buffer stop, hence the nozle doesn't fully contact the chamber/hopup section. the little play may have resulted to the nozzle not properly getting the discharged gas from the mag... which i believe to be the explanation to its inconsistency. it works like a charm now with stock everything.... also works well with a WA bolt & Ra NPAS. it does choose the type of magazine though... WA's are perfect, GHK mags not so much, Bombers i havent tried.

i will most likely utilize this INO if the HK416 upper receiver & ris do come out sometime next year (as indicated in another thread - iron airsoft video); of course hoping that the 416 upper will mesh with my lower INO.

my other project is a PRIME based magpul. it is basically complete; only lacks a PMAG style gbb magazine. i guess nobody has that yet anyways. prime magpul receiver, UBR (china clone only... due to the buffer tube), king arms CASV. i'll post some pics on both my custom builds when i get a decent camera.

[m102404]

Updated the WE AWSS M4/SCAR tech thread

UPDATE

***EDIT Sept 19, 2009***
Due to a happy mistake, I received a new nozzle and brass chamber for my M4 AWSS. Unlike my stock gun, this nozzle was shaped just like the SCAR AWSS nozzle in that it was stepped and wider at the body. It was mounted on a long (regular) M4 rod and piston unit though...odd. The short SCAR length rod was included in a baggie...so I wonder if it comes that way or if they mix and match at the factory. Anyways...although disappointed at first, I tore into my M4 and compared the parts. The cross pins and external cuts/dimensions matched between the "SCAR" unit and the "M4" unit. Yeah! As long as you use the "SCAR" nozzle with the "SCAR" brass chamber/tube (and similar for similar in the case of the M4 parts)...you're good to go...straight drop-in swap. I had cut my inner barrel to CQBR length and with the stock "SCAR" nozzle...FPS was bang on 400fps w/ 0.20g BBs.

***********************

As an aside...my WE M4 AWSS is acting up. Shortly after test firing with the "SCAR" nozzle/chamber it lost full auto and now isn't shooting semi at all. The knocker isn't traveling forward enough to hit the valve on the mag. Without a mag in it appears like it acts/resets/fires fine...but with a mag in I get a hammer drop but no-joy. Racking it manually with the charging handle resets it (and trips the knocker in the first few mm's of movement). I kind of wonder if I haven't tightened something down too much....or perhaps something has worn. The parts that bear against each other are "rubbed" (i.e. metal to metal contact, slight or evident shiny-ness)...but don't really look worn out. If someone can point me to a good how-to on removing and disassembling the trigger group I'd appreciate it...I hope I'm doing it right. I'll disassemble and reassemble not-so-tight...and see if introducing a little play into things doesn't help.

HA...figured it out. If, after a lot of shots and taking your piston/bolt assembly apart several times, you notice that type of shot behaviour...check that the UHMW spacer that sits on the body of the piston (to keep it centered in the bolt) hasn't nudged itself up towards the front of the bolt. Mine was repeatedly moving up, sort of centering itself on the two holes of the piston body...moving it back fixed it all up. I replaced it with a new spacer (that isn't loose at all) and things work just fine now. It's probably because I've disassembled mine over a dozen times that it's loosened up...as new, it's a quite a tight press fit.

[KEVORKIAN]

Is this a RA-Tech upgrade or a WETTI part that you installed?

[m102404]

It's a WETTI part. I got my camera sorted out...I'll try to take some comparison pictures and post them. (NOTE...figured out the previous firing issue...edited my last post with notes)

So...theoretically, the RA-Tech WETTI NPAS Adjustable SCAR nozzle should "drop" right in, if you have the matching chamber to go with it.
Pic#1/#2 - Top to bottom
- Stock WE AWSS M4 Nozzle (note it has one of my custom valves in it)
- Stock WE AWSS SCAR Nozzle (mounted in M4 bolt
- misc handmade valves (different ports and bore hole sizes...brass)
- bottom left in Pic#1...threaded spacer to fit on rod behind float valve
- center - stock float valve with threaded screw for adjustment



Pic#3 - SCAR nozzle fit (doesn't fit all the way in) into stock M4 Chamber, notice nozzle setback


Pic#4 - stock M4 AWSS nozzle fit into stock M4 chamber, seated fully. If you look really closely at the top nozzle...through the inlet hole, you'll see a bit of a handmade float valve.

[m102404]

I was fortunate enough to get a KSC MP7 this past weekend. Internally it's just like a GBB...but it's meant more as a SMG/PDW, so I figured I'd throw it in this thread eventhough it's not an M4, SCAR, AK or "traditional" GBBR.

I've always liked this particular PDW as a concept and it's seems like the real one is nicely built. However, I was really dismayed when I bought/handled/used the airsoft version. Under-impressed was a massive understatement. Weak FPS, "delicate" and one of the wussiest AEG sounds ever.

When a local got the KSC MP7, I got a chance to fondle that build for a bit. It's solid. Even without a mag it feels like a solid piece of machinery. The main grip has always been a bit of an odd fit for my hand (the rounded palm portion doesn't fit my mit nicely)...but it has that feel of picking up a well made quality tool.

Build quality is excellent and the fit/finish of the internals (i.e. slots/rails, reinforced areas, metal to metal contacts, levers, bits & pieces) is excellent. The charging handle (polymer) seems a little weak. I've racked and smacked it pretty good and it's held up...so I suppose it's better that it's flexible vs. brittle.

A local guy has blown his nozzle (same as with a GBB on propane) already at a toasty warm indoor game. I'm searching for replacement nozzles already to get a couple just in case.

*small note* - the orange paint that was on my tip came off almost as soon as I sprayed some paint stripper on it...it just sloughed off leaving the black finish underneath. Near immediate...which was nice!

I ran about 4 mags through it on duster. What a racket. This thing is LOUD. On a fill of duster each mag is good for about 2 full mag fills (30rnds loaded).

I just field stripped it, not a full disassembly. It's a dream to work on though.

Don't know about it's accuracy...For tactical CQB trials engaging Tangos "Across the basement", it's more than adequate. The "pistol" sights ride really low...the "rifle" flip-ups are much easier to use. The retractable stock is pretty sturdy with little wiggle (feels tight like a new CA MP5 sliding stock). We'll see how it holds up.

I bought this one for the upcoming winter season of indoor CQB stuff. With a couple of mags and a backup secondary...it's a nice setup.

Tys

[vatek]

KSC's new gas SMG releases are awesome. I got an MP9 a couple weeks ago and it's kickass. It puts my G18c to shame.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

WE AWSS M4..

I think I've put about 3000 rounds through mine .. I have not had so much as a misfire.. performance has been flawless

All mags settled out.. all 12 are holding gas and feeding flawlessly

i'm pretty impressed with this gun..

I've had a chance to handle and fire 2 other GBBR.. AGM .. I think

both had trouble finding a mag that works .. and both had sluggish recoil.. and just felt "soft"

Keep in mind all my opinions are subjective.. and not technical

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

WE AWSS M4..

I think I've put about 3000 rounds through mine .. I have not had so much as a misfire.. performance has been flawless

All mags settled out.. all 12 are holding gas and feeding flawlessly

i'm pretty impressed with this gun..

I've had a chance to handle and fire 2 other GBBR.. AGM .. I think

both had trouble finding a mag that works .. and both had sluggish recoil.. and just felt "soft"

Keep in mind all my opinions are subjective.. and not technical

I assumed you got lucky, ever seen the 250 pages on WE m4? 80% is like How do I fix this or My XXX broke or ****** this thing XXX broke
the 10% is like is this better than AGM?!?
I'm gonna stick to my Magna m4, as it looks like the future direction since so many variation and manufacture exist (although I hate the China ones) I just love the fact, if you want to disassemble or reassemble don't know how....look at brownells how to build AR-15, IT WORKS (some detent spring doesn't jump out unlike those from AR-15)

[Ronan]

Yeah Brian got lucky. I'm already getting PM's and messages on MSN about how to fix WE M4's (and a chap that had his SCAR stock break)... Saddly i have no clue.

My AGM has been working flawlessly. Although their seems to be a lot of bad mags out there.

Answer is simple... give them a tune up. Cost $10 of parts and maybe 20 mins per mag.

Edit: Yeah Kull, i love the fact i can look at how to disassemble/assemble a AR and it will be exactly the same for my magna blowback M4

More and more companies are comming out with parts. The thing i love is that you can grab a G&P lower, stick a G&P lower set (trigger, springs etc etc), stick the stock you want with the grip you want and your system is ready.

Have 2-3 uppers the way you want, get one good ra-tech bolt and voila!

It's PTW's all over again but with a LOT more fun and 1/3 the price

I can add i just ordered $634CAD of parts for my AGM. All for customization and some for performance. It's going to be a long 2 weeks

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

I assumed you got lucky, ever seen the 250 pages on WE m4? 80% is like How do I fix this or My XXX broke or ****** this thing XXX broke
the 10% is like is this better than AGM?!?
I'm gonna stick to my Magna m4, as it looks like the future direction since so many variation and manufacture exist (although I hate the China ones) I just love the fact, if you want to disassemble or reassemble don't know how....look at brownells how to build AR-15, IT WORKS (some detent spring doesn't jump out unlike those from AR-15)

Well... I've seen how some people "handle" their guns.. I see guys that break everything they touch.. hamfisted boneheads.

I certainly don't baby it.. I treat it like I do all my weapons.. like my life may depend on it working when I need it.

If you consider... the vast majority of people who are having zero issues likely won't post.. you only get feedback from the people who are having issues.

Seems all the various platforms have foibles... what I see mostly is..

Get X gun then ugrade the crap out of it.. and then maybe you will end up with something useable and nearly reliable.

My WE AWSS M4 has worked flawlessly out of the box , It shoots hard and straight.. and it is a joy to shoot... I can't ask for more..

Now I fully expect that it will go down sometime.. but I got Tyson just down the road tearing his down and rebuilding it every night.. so I figure I have good support to keep the gun up