Firepoint RDS melt in! I finally finished something.

MadMax · January 16th, 2006, 03:48

I finally go around to doing some work on my own collection. I haven't finished a project in awhile.

This time, I did a "melt-in" installation of a Firepoint RDS. The melt in installation sinks the RDS into the slide such that you can see the slide thru the RDS while acquiring the dot. It seems that aligning the gun such that the dot appears in the RDS window is quite instinctive as you naturally line up the top of the slide and the front sight pretty quick. The dot comes into view pretty quick and gives you a lot of extra viewing angle over having to line up the iron sights.

The slide is a Kimber aftermarket metal slide on a TM 5.1" Hicapa. I went with black as I prefer muted tones to race gun shine. Maybe I'll do a race gun someday. For now, I prefer stuff that is just business.

The surface for the RDS is milled down about 4mm at a 1deg downwards angle. The downwards angle is duplicated from a mounting plate which is meant to be used with a non melt in installation. I didn't want to use the mounting plate as I wanted to get the sight as low as possible so I milled the slide at the same angle.

I wish I could have mounted the sight a bit further forward so the back end of the sight didn't hang off of the rear of the slide, but there isn't much meat to tap screws into ahead of where I put the mounting screws in. There's also a blowback mechanism inside which I had to modify to clear the bottom of the sight sunk into the slide. The rear area where the stock bomar fits was filled in with JB weld before machining the mounting surface. I used aluminum tape to follow the contours of the slide and make a shaped pocket to inject JB weld into so the cast shape matched the cross section of the slide. The shape was razor cut while the JB was still soft to save on sanding and finally filed to final shape after hardening.

I just got a sewing machine so I can mod my holster to holster this gun with the sight on.

The trigger is shortened to about 2.5mm pull for supah trigger action.

JohnnyDo · January 16th, 2006, 04:10

sweet !!!! me wants one.. well two actaully for my glock 18's :>

airsoftassasin125 · January 16th, 2006, 04:19

very nice

BC_K · January 16th, 2006, 04:29

That is fuckin sweet.

MadMax · January 16th, 2006, 04:55

Now that I've done the quickdraw plinking for a bit with this sight, I'm not really sure why it isn't more popular with people who carry guns professionally. The sight acquisition is ridiculously fast and you don't have to run around holding the sights in line.

Mysteryfish · January 16th, 2006, 05:53

As soon as you make a "flip down" RDS, and stick the backup iron sights on there for daylight/busted RDS/Dead Battery situations, they'll sell like hotcakes.

BTW, I'm still a relative stranger to all that fun solid mechanics stuff involved, but wouldn't (in your estimation) the forces involved in the firing cycle of a firearm (aka "real steel" pistol [hate that term]) knock the shit out of an RDS directly mated to a slide?

Actually, I guess with a small enough profile/weight it wouldn't be an issue. It'd kinda suck to get a piece of RDS frame/glass in the face though :lol:

By the way, that's awesome.

BC_K · January 16th, 2006, 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysteryfish

As soon as you make a "flip down" RDS, and stick the backup iron sights on there for daylight/busted RDS/Dead Battery situations, they'll sell like hotcakes.

BTW, I'm still a relative stranger to all that fun solid mechanics stuff involved, but wouldn't (in your estimation) the forces involved in the firing cycle of a firearm (aka "real steel" pistol [hate that term]) knock the shit out of an RDS directly mated to a slide?

Actually, I guess with a small enough profile/weight it wouldn't be an issue. It'd kinda suck to get a piece of RDS frame/glass in the face though :lol:

By the way, that's awesome.

Actually they hold up quite well.

Older bro's buddy has one mounted on a Glock 34 (Real Steel), target aquisition is excellent and accurate double taps are easily achieved. Perfect for instinct shooting.

FOX_111 · January 16th, 2006, 08:50

Wow, that's original!

MadMax · January 16th, 2006, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysteryfish

As soon as you make a "flip down" RDS, and stick the backup iron sights on there for daylight/busted RDS/Dead Battery situations, they'll sell like hotcakes.

BTW, I'm still a relative stranger to all that fun solid mechanics stuff involved, but wouldn't (in your estimation) the forces involved in the firing cycle of a firearm (aka "real steel" pistol [hate that term]) knock the shit out of an RDS directly mated to a slide?

Actually, I guess with a small enough profile/weight it wouldn't be an issue. It'd kinda suck to get a piece of RDS frame/glass in the face though :lol:

By the way, that's awesome.

The sight is mounted in a way that you can use the iron sights if the dot dies. The sight has a rear notch which can be matched with the front sight. It took a fair bit of finagling to mount it so both the iron sights and the dot can be used.

As to weight, I think the sight weighs under an ounce.

Gryphon · January 16th, 2006, 14:04

I hate to be the one to break this but it's not an original concept. While the work performed is stellar, Docter optics have been mating to pistols' rear sight dovetails for some time.

Needless to say a Docter red dot is sufficiently strong enough to withstand the recoil forces generated by a real gun, which likely explains why you pay $500+ for one. That Firepoint appears to be a copy of the Docter, and hopefully is cheaper because I would be none too happy about a BB shattering the lens of a $500 red dot.

Do you plan to offer this as a service? I can see people wanting this done professionally and who better to perform the work?

MadMax · January 16th, 2006, 14:25

Melt in mounts aren't a new thing. Doctor, JPoint, and Firepoints have been melt in mounted for some time in R/S.

A dovetail mount isn't the same thing as a melt in though. You can't see the slide thru the RDS window with a dovetail mount. It's too high.

That Doc optic doesn't look like it can be melt in mounted though. The base is pretty thick.

The front optic on the Firepoint is nearly 1/4" thick plastic. I'm not sure cracking is an issue. It was a lot cheaper than a Doctor though.

As to custom installations, I'm out of the custom GBB market. It just isn't really worth the effort and consequent expense. Fitting the RDS was actually more work than just machining the slide. I had to mill a round pocket in the front of the RDS to match with the top curvature of the slide freehand. The frame isn't quite stiff enough to clamp aggressively so I scribed an arc traced to the slide and did some nervous dremel work.

ILLusion · January 16th, 2006, 17:28

The base looks thick, but what you're actually looking at is the mount adapter between the sight and the slide. DocterOptics' mounts tend to be thicker than their competition's. From what i've seen, my Doctersight's actual base is the same thickness as that of the Tasco/Optima2000 sight.

Both sights are able to be melted in. Just have to figure out how...

DuffMan · January 16th, 2006, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMax

It was a lot cheaper than a Doctor though.

How much cheaper?

Mysteryfish · January 16th, 2006, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC_Q

Older bro's buddy has one mounted on a Glock 34 (Real Steel), target aquisition is excellent and accurate double taps are easily achieved. Perfect for instinct shooting.

... you do know I'm referring to one that's mated directly to the slide, right?

Just to clarify - raised scopes/sights on pistols makes sense to me too, but they wouldn't get beat around as much.

(anyways, it's been shown to be workable, so... I'm done)

DonP · January 17th, 2006, 03:09

That's some nice work! Sounds like it took a little more than just a dremel, too. I like the result.

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January 16th, 2006, 03:48	#1
MadMax Delierious Designer of Dastardly Detonations Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: in the dark recesses of some metal chip filled machine shop	Firepoint RDS melt in! I finally finished something. I finally go around to doing some work on my own collection. I haven't finished a project in awhile. This time, I did a "melt-in" installation of a Firepoint RDS. The melt in installation sinks the RDS into the slide such that you can see the slide thru the RDS while acquiring the dot. It seems that aligning the gun such that the dot appears in the RDS window is quite instinctive as you naturally line up the top of the slide and the front sight pretty quick. The dot comes into view pretty quick and gives you a lot of extra viewing angle over having to line up the iron sights. The slide is a Kimber aftermarket metal slide on a TM 5.1" Hicapa. I went with black as I prefer muted tones to race gun shine. Maybe I'll do a race gun someday. For now, I prefer stuff that is just business. The surface for the RDS is milled down about 4mm at a 1deg downwards angle. The downwards angle is duplicated from a mounting plate which is meant to be used with a non melt in installation. I didn't want to use the mounting plate as I wanted to get the sight as low as possible so I milled the slide at the same angle. I wish I could have mounted the sight a bit further forward so the back end of the sight didn't hang off of the rear of the slide, but there isn't much meat to tap screws into ahead of where I put the mounting screws in. There's also a blowback mechanism inside which I had to modify to clear the bottom of the sight sunk into the slide. The rear area where the stock bomar fits was filled in with JB weld before machining the mounting surface. I used aluminum tape to follow the contours of the slide and make a shaped pocket to inject JB weld into so the cast shape matched the cross section of the slide. The shape was razor cut while the JB was still soft to save on sanding and finally filed to final shape after hardening. I just got a sewing machine so I can mod my holster to holster this gun with the sight on. The trigger is shortened to about 2.5mm pull for supah trigger action. __________________ Want nearly free GBB gas?

January 16th, 2006, 04:19	#3
airsoftassasin125 Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Ramon, CA	very nice __________________ .:Peace Loving Music:. :kill:

January 16th, 2006, 04:55	#5
MadMax Delierious Designer of Dastardly Detonations Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: in the dark recesses of some metal chip filled machine shop	Now that I've done the quickdraw plinking for a bit with this sight, I'm not really sure why it isn't more popular with people who carry guns professionally. The sight acquisition is ridiculously fast and you don't have to run around holding the sights in line. __________________ Want nearly free GBB gas?

January 16th, 2006, 04:10	#2
JohnnyDo Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Calgary, AB	sweet !!!! me wants one.. well two actaully for my glock 18's :>

January 16th, 2006, 04:29	#4
BC_K Banned Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2004	That is fuckin sweet.

January 16th, 2006, 05:53	#6
Mysteryfish Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: North Vancouver, B.C.	As soon as you make a "flip down" RDS, and stick the backup iron sights on there for daylight/busted RDS/Dead Battery situations, they'll sell like hotcakes. BTW, I'm still a relative stranger to all that fun solid mechanics stuff involved, but wouldn't (in your estimation) the forces involved in the firing cycle of a firearm (aka "real steel" pistol [hate that term]) knock the shit out of an RDS directly mated to a slide? Actually, I guess with a small enough profile/weight it wouldn't be an issue. It'd kinda suck to get a piece of RDS frame/glass in the face though :lol: By the way, that's awesome.

January 16th, 2006, 08:50	#8
FOX_111 Le Roi des poissons d'avril Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Terrebonne, Québec	Wow, that's original! __________________ Vérificateur d'âge: Terrebonne

January 16th, 2006, 14:04	#10
Gryphon Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MB	I hate to be the one to break this but it's not an original concept. While the work performed is stellar, Docter optics have been mating to pistols' rear sight dovetails for some time. Needless to say a Docter red dot is sufficiently strong enough to withstand the recoil forces generated by a real gun, which likely explains why you pay $500+ for one. That Firepoint appears to be a copy of the Docter, and hopefully is cheaper because I would be none too happy about a BB shattering the lens of a $500 red dot. Do you plan to offer this as a service? I can see people wanting this done professionally and who better to perform the work?

January 16th, 2006, 14:25	#11
MadMax Delierious Designer of Dastardly Detonations Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: in the dark recesses of some metal chip filled machine shop	Melt in mounts aren't a new thing. Doctor, JPoint, and Firepoints have been melt in mounted for some time in R/S. A dovetail mount isn't the same thing as a melt in though. You can't see the slide thru the RDS window with a dovetail mount. It's too high. That Doc optic doesn't look like it can be melt in mounted though. The base is pretty thick. The front optic on the Firepoint is nearly 1/4" thick plastic. I'm not sure cracking is an issue. It was a lot cheaper than a Doctor though. As to custom installations, I'm out of the custom GBB market. It just isn't really worth the effort and consequent expense. Fitting the RDS was actually more work than just machining the slide. I had to mill a round pocket in the front of the RDS to match with the top curvature of the slide freehand. The frame isn't quite stiff enough to clamp aggressively so I scribed an arc traced to the slide and did some nervous dremel work. __________________ Want nearly free GBB gas?

January 16th, 2006, 17:28	#12
ILLusion GBB Whisperer Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto	The base looks thick, but what you're actually looking at is the mount adapter between the sight and the slide. DocterOptics' mounts tend to be thicker than their competition's. From what i've seen, my Doctersight's actual base is the same thickness as that of the Tasco/Optima2000 sight. Both sights are able to be melted in. Just have to figure out how... __________________ *Advanced Airsoft Armaments and Enhancements* Quick to the gun, sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas Accuracy, Power, Speed

January 17th, 2006, 03:09	#15
DonP Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edmonton, AB	That's some nice work! Sounds like it took a little more than just a dremel, too. I like the result.

Firepoint RDS melt in! I finally finished something.

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