Low end guns are...popular?

[Devious Sinner]

maybe because i'm relatively new to the airsoft culture as a whole, but as far as i can tell those that are in this hobby are generally quite "hardcore" about it (though i do use the term hardcore lightly).

that being said, i often see people recommend and purchase the best guns possible or brands (VFC, KA...etc etc)

yet on the other hand, i see retailers bring in "lower" (again, term used very lightly) brand quality guns in, like Dboys, CYMA, JG...etc etc and it always sells and always in demand

my question is, if everyone is so hardcore and picky over the best of the best, why is it that the other brands are equally (if not more sometimes) popular?

(for the record, i don't mean to offend anyone if they favor particular brands like CYMA AK's or something, im just curious)

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Devious Sinner

my question is, if everyone is so hardcore and picky over the best of the best, why is it that the other brands are equally (if not more sometimes) popular?

We're not. Or at least not all of us. That's the answer.

Also, JG and CYMA guns are very good value for the price.

[HKGhost]

It's not what's the best brand that's recommended, but what works. Most players buy top brands assuming that it will work without issue. But some cheaper brands will do the same and give the most bang for their buck.

[Ayashifx55]

Well i bought a VFC SR because its higher quality and reviews on it are excellent. I rather pay extra hundreds for a reliable gun than a CYMA or JG that i'll have to upgrade right away if i want to make sure its reliable. Though it depends on your priorities of course. I don't have a family so i can ditch out a bit more money but of course, im not crazy enough to buy what people calls SOP MOD or systema for 1000$+++ gun

[Drake]

Having been around for about 15 years, I can see how it may look that way, I also have a pretty good idea of what's good and whats crap, and I generally know what people are running on the field.

The main problem with your (OP) observation is that you're drawing a conclusion by combining several distinct issues:

1. The advice is usually given by experienced players: they already have most of their gear and aren't buying that many new guns in most cases; when they do they're usually looking for something more specific based on their experience;

2. You presume noobs actually follow the advice they're given;

3. Typically, new players want to get in for cheap and play a bit before they invest a large sum into the hobby. Because there's usually a lot of other stuff to buy when starting out, the gun budget usually takes a hit unless the player has very deep pockets. So while they may know a different brand gun is a better choice, they just can't afford it out the gate;

4. We get a lot of new players every year and there's also a fairly high attrition rate for new players, too (a large segment of players don't last more than 2-3 years). It's generally those that stay longer that invest in the better equipment;

5. Last but not least, experienced players generally know how to work on their guns (or have found someone to doc their gun), and for many the criteria change a bit since everything doesn't have to be fawesome right out the box. The CYMA AKs, for example, have a great body and can be vastly improved by swapping out a few gearbox parts (or assembling a new box from scratch). This makes it a great value.


So for retailers who have to keep an inventory, the high end guns aren't as appealing since they may not move as quickly while the steady (and even growing) influx of new players looking for budget-friendly entry level guns means the cheaper guns usually will move.

You also need to take an extra step back and look at the cheap guns being offered (by retailers whom, most of the time, have experience as players) versus all the cheap guns available on the market: the really crap guns aren't being offered by most, save a tiny handful of generally ill-reputed retailers.

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by Devious Sinner

yet on the other hand, i see retailers bring in "lower" (again, term used very lightly) brand quality guns in, like Dboys, CYMA, JG...etc etc and it always sells and always in demand

I'll just chime in here and say that the 3 brands you have described are more like todays mid-range. The low-end is solidly-occupied by the likes of APS and JM and other oddball brands. You also have to leave room for the super low end, like the walmart guns and such.

I have worked extensively on examples from each brand and they're more than adequate for me as a tech to turn into tough, high performance AEGs. Hang around on Airsoft Mechanics or YouTube for long enough and you'll find hundreds of examples of people who buy CYMA and JG guns for next to nothing, rework and upgrade them, and turn them into monstrous firehoses that can handle high workloads, high rates of fire, and last through winter play.

Both brands occupy mid-range "positions of excellence" in different categories.

JG for example makes one of the highest torque, low heat, low noise neo motors in airsoft, the JG Blue, and it often sells for 30 to 40 bucks.

CYMA's version 3 gearboxes are considered to be very tough and easy to upgrade, especially for the prices their guns sell at. Many of the CYMAs I have looked at come with high torque neo motors, while every King Arms and most VFCs I've upgraded from stock came with weakass ferrite motors. Many of their AKs come with real wood and can be weathered-down to look very nice indeed.

I dont' have too much to say about DBoys quality, but in my stable I do have the DBoys knockoff of the VFC KAC PDW, and there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from installing MOSFETs, high speed gears, R-Hop, fat wires, and turning this thing into an absolute beast. Mine runs at 400fps at over 35rps reliably and is as accurate as I'd ever want it to be. I got it for a steal, and my team mates love to borrow it when their guns go down or they want to try something new.

On the other hand, I've gotten the impression that the high end brands tend to do the absolute minimum possible to qualify as high end product. G&P installs defective gears, KA puts in weak motors, VFC puts in crappy transparent pistons and cheesy "self-shimming" gears that are noisy as a banshee (seriously, is Taiwanese labour so expensive that they can't get a guy to take 10 minutes to shim these things normally on their way out of the workshop?), etc. And not a SINGLE one of these so-called high end brands put MOSFETs into their guns or even attempt to correct angle of engagement (AoE) out of the factory, and yet somehow magically we're supposed to believe they're LiPo-ready (KWA is the biggest offender here). Given that those two upgrades are the absolute core of "LiPo-readiness", what up with that?

TL;DR: JG, CYMA, and to a lesser extent DBoys deliver some amazing value and for a lot of players it's extremely easy to turn them guns that exceed the power and reliability of any stock high end gun.

[m102404]

Guys like cheap stuff.

That something looks the parts, has the right numbers/specs, is supposed to be compatible so it can be upgraded later...all for less than other options....that appeal is irresistable for many. I fall under that spell all the time (but usually don't end up keeping them for long...it's just an itch to scratch)

Even though I have some decent stuff...I still oogle/lust over the new releases from any manufacturer.

IMO...there's always the potential for a jewel in the rough to be found. Some "cheapo" guns are actually built quite decently (externals) and with just a little bit of work (internals) they can be champs.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with going with a "cheapo" "lowend" brand. It might work forever (or at least as long as you need it to)...or it might die right away (even some good guns do that too).

Just don't go into anything to do with airsoft expecting that it'll work perfectly. Expect that it won't...and work up from there.

[The Chad]

People drive sunfires, others drive escalades, while some sit in their garage and work for years on their hemi-cuda......

[R.I.T.Z]

Originally Posted by m102404

There's absolutely nothing wrong with going with a "cheapo" "lowend" brand. It might work forever (or at least as long as you need it to)...or it might die right away (even some good guns do that too).

to expand on this with 1 gun in particular

Kraken AK

I've seen guns go 1000's of rounds and guns go a 100 before dying.
yes they are plastic, but i've noticed quite a few fraken guns which started out as this 180$ plastic mystery

[canabubba]

Every sport/hobby/pasttime will have those highly vocal douchebags who'll say stuff like "If you don't spend at least $1,00 on your gun, you're buying SHIT!". For them, money equals happiness. They're in the extreme minority, but because they're so vocal, it's easy to think they represent a larger percentage of the group.

I run an all-age club, and what we tell our players is to buy something that's affordable and reliable......I'll almost always suggest an Aftermath gun. For $100-$150, you can get a gun that you can't kill, except by physically damaging it. After a year or two, when they decide they love the game, are more educated about models, brands, etc, and want something a little better, then the Aftermath becomes their back-up gun. We have guys that have been using the same 'low-end' guns for 5 years, have never opened the gearbox, and they shoot like they came out of the box yesterday.

Some of the best players I've seen use the least expensive guns. They're in it for the game, and not the glory.

[suzenonest]

Hmm interesting point about VFCs self shimming gears. I was shooting my vfc side by side with my almost stock g&g and with proper shimming, the g&g sounds wayyy better. The vfc does have a whine to it. Maybe it's time for a new gearset next time I crack her open.

Would the modify drop-in shimless gearset cause the same noise? I liked the concept when I first seen it

[Spike]

I hate those self shimming VFC gearsets... they don't work well

[lurkingknight]

airsoft is extremely interchangable if you know your way around the brands... meaning you can save a lot of money by buying the most robust 'cheap/low end' gun you can find and then doing the exact same to it what everyone does to their high end guns when they break.

This is airsoft. everything breaks. It's not a question of if, but when, even high end stuff.

It's not hard to put together a gun that can outperform a ptw or a vfc etc in terms of mechanics for a third of the price. Where some of the lesser brands may suffer is manufacturing tolerance or quality of the external model. You can ignore the internal mechanics, they are all relatively interchangeable between brands.

The balancing act when you do the 'low end' shopping is to find the highest quality externals with internals like the gearbox shell that is robust enough to handle dropping in stuff like a DSG gearset or a 13:1 speed gears with high power neo motors to go 40+ rounds a second. But even then, you can just buy say a lonex preassembled gearbox and drop it into a 100 boneyard gun frame and be at under 300$ for a well built gearbox that will last.

You don't see much of it in canada, the market grew slightly different here because of pricing... everything was stupid expensive until this year, so if a dboys or JG or cyma started at 300-400$ because someone had to upgrade it prior to import vs a vfc or G&P etc at 500-600$ It's not hard to justify spending the extra bit but hang out on airsoft mechanics (like maciekA and I do, and a few others) you will see some ingeniously cheap and crazy shit done to something like a Dboys or JG gun to make them crazy.

With prices being reasonable now, you're looking at 200-300$ for that dboys and still around 500 for that vfc... so for people who know what they're doing, that's potentially quite the savings. Still nowhere near what the americans can buy for 200$ but the options have opened up.

Originally Posted by suzenonest

Hmm interesting point about VFCs self shimming gears. I was shooting my vfc side by side with my almost stock g&g and with proper shimming, the g&g sounds wayyy better. The vfc does have a whine to it. Maybe it's time for a new gearset next time I crack her open.

Would the modify drop-in shimless gearset cause the same noise? I liked the concept when I first seen it

shimming is not hard. IF you don't like the vfc self shimming ones, the modify ones probably won't inspire any confidence either. Don't let someone else claim he can do for you what you know you can do correctly yourself. :P

[Stealth]

Originally Posted by suzenonest

Would the modify drop-in shimless gearset cause the same noise? I liked the concept when I first seen it

No, they sound worse than VFC.
The biggest problem with that gearset is that you can't adjust the height of the setup at all. It drops in, and that's it. Pinion gear not meshing correctly with the bevel gear? Too bad.

[Jimski]

plus you have to admit high-end in airsoft is still somewhat crappy.You get quality pot metal instead of crappy pot metal.