Squad integrity ingame?
 

Hi

One of the major issues we face when playing outdoor is maintaining squad coherency. It very hard for a CO to coordinate effort if he has no squad leader with a squad to work with. It gets complicated when squad take loss, player to back to the respawn and is now squadless... He usually walks back in the field and is not the chain of command anymore. How to work around this, in order to maintain squad integrity?

I m thinking:

1) Squad leader as mobile respawn (only for there squad member)? 2) Forcing player to respawn only when they are 5, forming new squad in the process (this could cause long waiting time in the respawn...)?

Anyone has tried any good way to maintain squad unity during the game?

Well actually the first major issue from that is comms. If you don't have comms, you're already fucked before starting the game.

It all depends as well as what are the objectives and rules of the game. If it's a MilSim type of game, you should have Medevacs and Casevacs if a player is hit, and there on all the squad should take the guy and bring him back to the respawn, wait a certain amount of time, and then hit the field back again.

But on the other side, if some of your teammates are holding a key emplacement, it's fucked up for them as well.

If the leader is getting shot all the time he's doing something wrong.

You should have a 2IC who will step in when the leader is otherwise occupied.

The squad should be cohesive enough to survive without the leader and still go forward.

You don't need the whole squad on radios but the more the merrier.

Giving the leader a Mulligan because he gets shot a lot so he doesn't have to re-spawn like the rest of the unit won't make make him get better.

Everyone should have a radio. This does not mean everyone needs to be on the radio.

There should be a command channel. This is for Squad Leaders to get into contact with Command. Not the other way round.

There should be individual squad channels. This is for squad members to communicate with each other, as well as for command to reach a specific squad leader. This is key to arrange dead squad members to regroup out in the field, or to call all squad members to return to base and reorganize.

The above is the easiest way to organize radios so that the only person who needs two radios is command. Everyone else can get by with just one radio on one channel. Squad leaders only have to change channels if they need to start a conversation with command, otherwise, command will talk on their squad channel.

I agree that radio and discipline are 2 critical factors to improve squad cohesion. But what about mecanic / rules that could be use?

What respawn rule could help maintain squad integrity and avoid the typical: i died, go back and respawn then walk back in the game and don t try to regroup with my squad?

IMO...

From overall C&C for a side...down to each squad member...the SOPs should be well known (and understood, and accepted) well before. If guys are well on the ball all that's needed is a quick briefing at the game...if they're random individuals it might be a lot harder. Best thing to do is to split up the random individuals and tag them along into a squad of guys who have things worked out already.

Since each person on a squad knows the SOPs...then when they take a loss there's a way to check in with everyone, a way to quickly assess how you're doing (ammo, strength, etc...) and a decision point if you can continue or have to GTFO and regroup.

If a number of small squads are working together (or even in the same area) they might join together until things get sorted out.

So far as having guys link back up it's always a good SOP to never have a single guy go anywhere. Dead guys can head back to respawn together...live guys can head out together to regroup. A little bit of C&C can go a long way....linking guys back up with their squads, tagging them into other squads for a bit until they can hook back up, etc..

Everyone having a radio is a good thing...95% of the guys should be doing nothing but listening anyways.

Not having a plan/SOP...letting guys go off on their own...not having a way to communicate....that's the perfect combo to have guys go off and never hook back up with their squad.

That said...that all works in "milsims" and not really in an all day skirmish with a bunch of random individuals. If you've got random individuals...or even little groups of guys who don't know what's what...then tag them with other groups who do. It'll probably be a much better day for everyone.


**********edit after your last post*******
Say you've got a squad of 5-6 guys....
- if one is hit...they should just hang out and see if anyone else from their squad gets killed...or if anyone else from another squad gets killed....before they head back to respawn. Wait around (be dead though...not in the way of the fight)...don't go back alone.

- if two or more are dead...they should wait around until the fight is over. Their squad may take more losses and decide to regroup...in which case they can all head back together. Otherwise...the dead can head back together.

- if you have to head back alone...it's not a bad idea to either set the RV point to be...the place where you died (the other guys can lay low and wait)....a designated spot (maybe where your squad has stashed their packs/extra gear/etc...)...or an RV that your squad sets as you move along. Might be a designated feature...i.e. the bridge...the makeshift fort....the "big pine" (old FTF landmark). Whatever you set it to....both the squad and the respawning guys have to know to meet there...and how to get there.

Being able to communicate is obviously important.

If all that seems like a lot of waiting around...then encourage people not to rush in a get shot. :)

If guys aren't trying to link back up with their squad...then they're really not working together are they?

I lead from the front. I do place some some of my guys in the line of fire to protect myself as well as I'll send them into an area im curious about, but the main thing is everyone on my squad has time in te squad leader seat. That way if I am eliminated, anyone on the squad can assume command and that in itself is dependant on whom is in the best position geographically/ psychologically to assume command wether it be the 2ic or not. My team has spent alot of time in game with eachother and the lead role is fluid and shifts from person to person depending on circumstances. Of course myself and the 2ic are always "in control" and make final calls but if there is no reason to take command away from someone if theyre doing an acceptable job. we won't until their orders are followed through or we see a drastic issue. Letting them make mistakes and bad calls while leading the team helps them improve their skills in snap decisions, quick ao assessment, and dealing with the stress and indecision that clouds judgment.

But moral of the story is everyone/ anyone on your team should be able to assume command until the commander returns without arguing over who it should be, without questioning decisions as the achieving the objective should be the blinding focus.

Some squad leaders are on a power trip an dont allow team mates to infringe on their territory which is a stupid, counter productive notion, or their afriad a team mate may do a better job at leading the team, which can happen.!good calls happen and everyone is capable of them, bad calls happen as well; however what sets a leader apart is owning a bad call, being to adapt to them (realizing when to stick to your decision or to modify the origional plan to salvage a bad call into a mediocre one. A poor leader will refuse to believe he's made a bad call, refuse to change their tactics and end up failing the objective and having the squad eliminated. Luckily This is not the real military it's a game/ sport so the structured rankings and all that are ridiculous in this setting and we get to learn from our mistakes.

I've played games where if 3 guys get shot after 2PM they can tag each other back in as long as wind is blowing from the West and so on.

All you do is create an unwieldy rule that not everyone understands, some people re-interpret, and if you ever play with an outside group has to go out the window and you're back on your heels because the crutch is gone.

one word
 

Reorganization.

Reorg after every assault. Reorg after every move.

if your group is reduced to 50% strength withdraw, and RV with your respawning players. If you can hold.. do so until relieved,

Establish Fixed RV points where Respawing players can move to, out of engagements but close to the action so your unit can disengage, swing back and pick up your guys and re-enter the fight. Or you can call them in to your location from the rally point

Fight through the objective with what you have left in the squad, if you are killed respawn together. If you succeed hold the position and wait for the teammates to return, radio command for other reinforcements if you are thin on the ground.

Never just stop and loose any initiative you gained while a few squad members got eliminated.

Mission first.

Spend time kicking doors together. Clear rooms effectively as a squad or 2-3 man teams. Communicate effectively. Make someone other than the team lead the comms guy on the command net w/ HQ.

Most of all have fun and bond outside of airsoft :)

The way I see it, squads do things together. If you need a serious flanking manuver, call another squad to do it. That way, you are not left with a push of 3-4 guys with a flanking manuver of 3-4 guys.

When taking casualty, dead mens lay down and await being medic'ed. The livings should defend the "deads" or bring them back for treatement. If it's not possible, the whole squad, even the living, should go to respawn together. They should also report to command that they are no longer at fighting strenght and medevac'ing their dead.

If an Objective can't be left, the dead mens are brought to the objective to be held by the living. All hold untill releived by a stronger force.

There should be no "Dead man walking". Only "Dead squad leaving".

i'm part of swatt13s team and i totally agree. i'm one of the newest members of his team and everyone gets a chance to lead a squad on skirmish days and if the need arises at away games if everyone more experienced then you is respawning or getting back and don't know whats going on yet.

for example this past sunday i was squad leader for 2 games on our skirmish day. and its a great way to learn how to lead a group. win or lose you get experience. i'm very fortunate to be on a team of experienced players that wants their players to progress and become better players/leaders.

+1 If the squad don't have enough man to hold and secure the area

What we apply with my team:
-More than 50% loss, the squad go back to a safer zone and wait the guy from the respawn to get reinforced. They hold a position and secure a perimeter (they still a threat for the ennemy mostly lone wolf who try to flank.
-If you dead, go back to the respawn and wait for another guy from your squad.
-Never go back on the field alone.
-Be assured you have the position of your squad before leaving the respawn (no erratic search on the field).

tried a little thing that seemed to work well. Say theres 4 of ya and you start getting shot at. you loose two guys. when you loose a third the last remaining living guy walks off too. This way one guy isnt left alone and theres no searching for him once the other three respawn. This also allows all of you to load up again and come out as one full force.

It is the squad leaders responsibility to constantly be setting RV points. If you don't have medic rules and its a traditional "go back to spawn come back", instruct your troops to stay at the RV until the squad can reorg. As Brian said, always reorg after an assault or when casualties start mounting. The section member should make every effort to be aware of the location of his section, and try to stay with them at all times. This means not fucking off on your own to rambo, or go to the safe zone (or tim hortons) without telling anyone. This is my biggest pet peev:, when you're leading a squad and your 4 random dudes just fucked off by themselves and got lost. As much as it is the squad leaders responsibility to maintain cohesion, the section member must show discipline in sticking with his squad and following orders. This is airsoft not the military, so trying to command untrained civilians can be frustrating.

As has been stated, 2 I/Cs need to be in comms with the commander and have their head in the game. Most section level tactics require splitting into two groups to have a support and assault element, so you need to be able to effectively split up and still work as one unit. The squad leader at a minimum must be in comms with the commander, but dont rely on radios. Have RV points and SOPs like "respawn with a buddy" or "wait at the RV for reorg". If you have to detach members of the squad to leave them in a location, give them a contingency plan and a location to meet up if he doesn't hear from you for awhile.


At the end of the day, comms are nice but SOPs and some semblance of discipline will help you the most, regardless of respawning rules.

I like your style. Tactics should be practiced outside official games so you don't have to waste energy micro-managing your squad mates. Obviously there will be times to tell them what to do (e.g. Line up for a door breach, start flanking left, etc...) but if we're fighting in a forest, and there are 3 guys cramped up around me in a firefight, I really shouldn't have to tell them to spread out.

I tend to gravitate toward leadership positions in life but to be honest I actually prefer following orders. I've always considered myself a good person to watch someone's back because I'll place more importance on their survival than mine, especially if they're a good shooter - I'll do anything to keep them alive and taking out the enemy.

As for leaders...I guess each man will inevitably lead differently since it's not like we all go through the same leadership course, and I'm ok with that - I'm playing this to have fun, really - but I despise "leaders" who put their guys in harms way knowing they might get taken out.

For me if I was leading, I would never ask my guys to do something I wouldn't do myself. There's no "I" in Team! (There is a "ME" but no one likes a smart ass)

Offering the opposite point of view...
As a new player, I find it super frustrating to respawn and then trek across the field searching for my squad - a term I use loosely. I don't have a team, and I plan on buying a radio but I don't know if the investment will be wasted. I'm sure there's a thread somewhere for buying radios - not the point.
This weekend, when I got tagged, a couple more senior players hunkered down and said they'd wait for me where they were. We'd made some good progress together, and I thought it was a nice gesture. They got that I was new, and would likely wind up wandering lone wolf, frustrated and likely as not to shoot a teammate.
Thank you, good sirs.

Living leave the field
 

Sorry I completely disagree, get your stuff together. A live man in field who has eyes on a section of the field WHERE YOU GOT SHOT is an incredibly valuable asset. He should not be leaving just because the rest of squad is dead.

What you are going give up a section of the battlefield because your teammates got killed and you want to stay together.

Dig in observe and report, regroup with your squad when they respawn. Or stay put and continue to report if it is of more value. Knowing where , how many and what the enemy is doing has real value, far more than keeping a squad together.

And by the way comms are critical, I spend a great deal of my time doing recon. With scattered sniper teams on at least 2 occasions we knew every move the enemy made as they made it. And reported using radio,those things are not fashion accessories.

Keep it simple and learn the basics.

I rarely see a squad or group set rally points on the move... one of the most fundamental AND critical SOPs out there. They are super useful and will help you rally up.

The situation will most often dictate the action. Squad of 5 loses 3... you may withdraw, you may hunker down and observe, you may fight on. You have to have faith in your leader and follow them whether you agree or not. Otherwise, you are not an asset, you are a liability to the group.

As for the methodology to 'hooking back up'. Get on your squad channel. Communicate with your guys and direct them to an RP that makes sense. Yes, this may involve some walking. Sorry. But immersing yourself in what you are doing and the bigger picture will help you enjoy the game on a deeper level. Don't look at it as humping it all over the field, look at it as medivac'd out, patched up and now you're tasked with a stealthy re-insertion to hook up with your brothers in arms.

Have fun out there!

I cant believe I stumbled on this post. Its like someone was watching the game we just played!

The field we are at now is severely grown in. We have trenches, 5 foot high grass, trees make it severely dark etc,

Well from reading this, it has just become clear why the game we were playing up to only a few weeks now are having serious issues.

Its because if one team has a solid communication and idea of the field and the other team doest, its game over.

I recall being pinned in a location trying to communicate with a few of my other team mates we were with and could not see them 20 feet away from me. They did not have radios.

got ugly when the friendly fire started. Was funny I tried to identify each team as best as possiblem and green , but I can tell you there was limited visability at each team could have had pink too too's on and you would have seen jack shit.

This was all about communication and without that, forget it.

I am considering banning the radios on both sides to prevent an imballance. Not sure yet.

I don't think banning radios is the solution. People need to consider adding a radio to their kit. It really is an important piece of kit and critical to tactical Milsim style airsoft.

I agree, was just trying to take the easy way out.

The hard way is convincing people of the importance. I recall looking at the guys I was with in one area, dead silent in the woods, hearing some info in my ear piece, and looking at them 20 feet away drift off into the wrong direction. (they had no radios and I could not say "psst hey, OVER THERE TWO ENEMY" (and not give our position away.

kind of a pisser, but I get it, making the whole field as shit show does not fix it.

Even if both teams are using radios, both teams have to be using them effectively to make a difference/make it competitive.

I've been carrying a radio since mid season last year.. and frankly it's been just a piece of equipment fluff, by and large, since some on the team that i'm usually on don't carry them, and those that do, really don't know how to use them effectively.

Your field has two teams that are lop-sided by nature - not intentionally of course, it's just the way things have run/worked out so far. Tans have learned to work as a team, with the core having very effective vocal direction, compliance, and radio discipline. The Op-for team, of which i've played on for three games (very much on the periphery) is basically a team comprised of 'others'.. all others that have attended the games, but haven't really worked/practiced closely together to make the team-mileu work. They/we might have a common goal, but my observation has been that the common goal is uncoordinated and unchanneled. The team members do go for the common goal in smaller groups, or as individuals, but there is no cohesiveness, which is a force-multiplier - of which Tan team has so effectively demonstrated. Radio comm's are simply an effective tool to the end means of cohesiveness.

In other words, i got no answers for ya, just an observation .. I'm not sure that even if all people on Op-for team got on board for radio comm's, they'd be able to use them effectively, at this point.

Still enjoy the games though!

Thanks HackD

Being on the Op team with the other I can totally see what you are saying. That said as an organizer I have to adjust the games to ensure they are even. Even meaning they are evenly matched, equipped, etc. I am glad you pointed this out as its tough to see this from the "weeds".

I am going to re think this to ballance the next games out to offset this handycap.

Cheers

Trevor

The army uses simple methods to enhance squad cohesion.

they number everyone off , and then you always have the same position in the field.

for airsofting there is no need to use anything other than 2 simple formations..

Column .. for moving

and Line for attacking, holding, observing.

when you arrive at the game.. shake out your gear.. and get ready.. and the 1st thing to do is find a buddy to work with for the day ..

then that group of 2 find another group of 2 to work with, then that group of 2 find another group of 2 .. and so on till you have 8 or 10 guys ..

pick one guy to be the boss and another guy to help him out.

number everyone off .. so everyone knows their position in the column and the line.

run it dry a couple of times just walking through in the safe zone..

Then hit the field..

Radios a good.. but if you have your squad set up and numbered off .. you can start pretty quickly figuring out how to communicate in the squad without them.

^ Going back to the core problem... radios are pretty much essential kit for "re-integrating" killed/lost players into the squad. Brian's suggestion is providing you specifics to what I had previously mentioned... simplicity and basic SOPs are where it's at! Let's face it, the vast majority of us airsofters are "part-time wannabe's"... and not professionals as much as we'd like to think we are.

Now go out there and practice this stuff (seriously... try it at the next game and keep trying until it makes sense)... and have fun!

Ya Trev, the radios are a key part of us seeing the big picture, finding out when and where thr enemy is moving. In contact however, most commands are either verbal or hand signals. We get loud very quickly once BBs start flying, at which point radios are used primarily to pass along GRITs to teammates not in the immediate vicinity. The other factor is using radios effectively, as Hackd mentioned, having a radio is just a prop unless the whole team knows how they work. Fully half of my section is not cleared to broadcast on the radio unless theres an extremely vital piece of intel or theur team leader is down. Most guys just listen.

At Hill 437 having 242 and DC on one team does unbalance things its true. The two teams have been playing together pretty well every month or more since last summer.

The solution is definately not to ban radios. Not only would that be counterproductive to the type of play we encourage, it honestly wouldnt change the outcome much. DC played all last summer without proper radio comms. Instead, splitting the teams differently, and actually getting the green to train outside of the five minute pow wow pregame will change things.

Ya Roger,

The banning of the radio comment was a reach. In case of emergency "break glass"

It is definately not the answer. Like ammo caps or banning laser.

As we discussed we will be reballancing and why I really have a huge respect for you guys. You really do want to encourage a great fight and will do anything to adjust for that.

As we talked, we will re ballance F242, Karma you, newer players etc to beef the battles up.

End result should be spreading around the knowledge. Espacially since all the guys coming are not thinking they are "God" and truely want to get stronger.

We have a natural enviroment here we need to exploit. This is it!

cheers.

Trev

PS sorry for the thread hijack, but this really did help our field out in my opinion.

Good Read.... Cheers

The major issue is the respawn and return.

If you take that out of the equation, you get a cohesive squad by default.

So how can you make that squad respawn without screwing up game dynamics?

We made system for those really big fields where respawn is too far away.

Remaining squad members have to relocate to a proper clearing to simulate a helicopter drop off.

The dead just follow along from further away in a non-obstructive way.

Once the LZ is held after X time, the dead come back into play as simulated reinforcements with the squad.

If the squad is wiped out, it has to go back to the original respawn area.

You cannot respawn in another squad so squad integrity is assured.

The obvious problem to this is that respawn times can vary but default mesure is the original respawn so in the worst case, there is always the default respawn and time could be included in the time that the player walks to the default respawn to ensure the ''I hate waiting'' syndrome.

As far as game systems that enforce squad cohesion, I think this is a good alternative.

Squad is also a "small time" idea. SWATT13, Freelancer and our team does have a command structure, but anyone can lead if necessary. If someone gets shot out, they have a responsibility to return to, or radio check in with their group to support. Another thing to think about if your at a milsim, is that there is usually a few people in charge of the whole team. My squad might be hitting an objective, but it's because that's where we were needed. If all squads don't coordinate, that's where you can run into problems as well.

I dont think most understand the idea of Long_bong.

He is looking for a system that will indirectly influence the players to stay together.

What you're saying in a way is ; ''This problem exists but I'm not willing to give it credit as a real problem because it's lack of maturity from the players''

If you as a game organiser can tweak things enough to make it seemless and actually make people act the way you need them to without having to cram 3 tons of ''holier than thou'' of proper conduct lectures, would you do it?

In a way, I think a good organiser can analyse problems of this kind and deliver a proper responce by doing just this.

Back to the system now just tough of something :

Another tweak could be to add CO approved insertions so respawn time would depend on the avalability of the virtual helicopter.

In ex : Squad A is currently respawing. Co approves the respawn and sends the virtual chopper and sends the ETA ( in EX 10 min ). Another call comes in. Squad B requests respawn reinforcement . Squad B has to wait for squad A to finish respawning simulating that transport is currently unavailable.

There is a few things you can do. The easiest is invite only games. Basically invite teams that are organized, well established, with good attitudes. Secondly would be make radios mandatory. Thirdly, have force commanders who have direct comms with each team leader. Make sure "every" straggler was designated a team before game start, and if you have small or disorganized groups then you assign them a commander from your roster of admins, or well knowns.

Pretty much everything you say has been done and had hit&miss results Ricochet and current results show that respawns are a major issue regarding squad integrity.

You have to think outside the box for a moment and basically not count on what you think they should do but rather at what they are doing and redirect instead of trying to direct kinda like jiu-jitsu.

I know all too well what you mean, I got a team because of chronic frustrations from players playing bb trolling in game.

I had a thought about this, unfortunately my local community has no appetite for change.
Every player carries some bandages 2-5 or whatever. They each can revive and if they run out of bandages they can simply harvest any from wounded teammates. At any time the squad can go back to respawn/command and remove the bandages, thus restocking them.
This would keep squads together and squads would be able to operate longer in the field. On the other end you would be forced to kill off a squad or risk their vengeance, also the bandage(s) may give be spotted easier.

I think it adds some cool dimensions and trade offs, similar to other medic rules and for the most part simple to apply in most settings and communities.

If squads want to stay together they will.

You can't make them.

Maintaining unit cohesiveness is a commad responsibility, it's resource management.

Well that revived an old thread lol.
But to touch on your idea. That is something that has been used but one thing that works well that Trev does is he has length of cord (not too long like a foot long) attached to carabieners. He hands em out to each player.
When your hit you call out for a medic. Someone comes to you and ties a knot in the rope and your alive. You can change it up but for this example lets say you have two "bandages" (ie 2 knots can be tied in the field)
Once your two knots have been tied you are eithet out (use this for short skirms) or you have to go to base to pic up more bandages (ie untie your two knots) and re deploy. (for longer games)
Doing this makes teams work together to ensure the "no man left behind" motto is upheld. Always staying close to the downed men clearing the area and reviving the dead when alot of guys are on their seccond knot everyone extracts to the base/spawn point and unties existing knots and goes back in full force.
To add more dynamic to this you can make it posible to move injured players (say a player is down and you can get to him but sticking round to tie a knot will get you killed too. You get your squad to suppress get to the player put a hand on him or he puts one on you so you can shoot while you pull him back to beter cover to tie the knot. Note that using the dead player as cover isnt alloud. The live player should be between the enemy and the dead one and if the dead player is hit he should drop again allowing the enemy a chance to hit the live one too(say the suppresed enemy sent a flanking group that has a line on the live player but the dead one was in the way only fair they have the chance to kill the "medic")
Its not as complicated as i just made it seem.
Lemme rephrase
If you getting extracted and you get shot hit the ground till your touched again. Lol thats beter.

+1

Huzzah thread revive!

Like many others have said: Radios and Comms are #1

Personally I'm a big fan of having a squad net and a command net. One quick blast on the squad net of "you're in charge now" means that you'll get your replacement squad leader reaching up to command pretty darn quick.

After the respawn: having a radio connection on the squad net means you're much more likely to track them down and regroup easily.

I like the knots idea, but I'm usually pretty hesitant when it comes to field respawns. Especially when dealing with objectives or tight spaces.

Excerpt from JOTF-SOG SOP

Action on separation from your unit.

28. If separated and not hit. move to the last designated Re-organization point. Contact your unit by Radio with the codeword “lost Puppy” The radio message should be “A1 this is A5 -Lost Puppy. Your Unit will provide you with Joining instructions or you may be directed to make your way to their location.
If separated and HIT go to your respawn point and then report to the designated rally point and execute the “lost puppy” message.
The primary responsibility of any unit member that is separated from their unit for any reason is to re-join their unit.

This is true but in practice it isn't always easy to set up.

A perfect example is a recent game in Quebec City which counted 351 players on the field (AFAIK the biggest game in Canada to date): given the limited number of usable channels (FRS+GMRS), split between two teams, minus one for admin/emergencies, setting up command and squad nets proved difficult.

On paper we came up with a solid plan, but in practice it went to hell pretty fast due to the size of the field and the inability for separated elements from raising comms with their platoon/squad, breakdown in comms between hq and forward units (probably due to range and terrain) etc.

This resulted in a lot of chaos, confusion, friendly fire, etc.

So in situations like that, having a backup plan is a must.

Oh no doubt. I'm picturing 30-100 player games here.

Although . . . 7 channels . . . 12 or so privacy codes. You could probably make it work, but you'd want a flowchart of some kind!

I guess that's why the armed forces run a lot bigger radios with a lot more nets eh? ;)

Yeah in hindsight CTCSS and low power (0.5-1w) Tx for squad comms should have been a must (just to talk to your squad in close proximity) and there should have been an inter-squad net in addition to command: so many times we weren't sure if a group was friendly or hostile, didn't have comms with them if they were friendly (no way to know which channel they're on) and couldn't raise hq.

We had 300 people at claybank, a force of 140 or so tan players managed to execute orders perfectly.
Claybank was more about who's leading the platoons than who's at the top.
We rough out a basic plan; take the tits, dig into the hills, third platoon cuts through the middle.
Each platoon commander knows what their job is, and the boundaries of their AOE. Then it's just a matter of the platoon commanders micro managing their force. Tell guys to move up, yell at them to STOP moving up while the mobile respawns are moving up, give them intel on enemy squad movement, objectives, etc.
We had the fog roll in at claybank 2, I could barely see my squads let alone the other platoons, we figured because we had no line of sight and no radio contact that shit was gonna fall apart for us in the valley. Then the fog lifted and we had actually gained ground. We discovered our platoon commanders were competent lol
So claybank 4 was just a matter of "this platoon goes this way, that platoon goes that way, any questions?"

Mobile spawns are great for keeping everyone together on a huge field though! But the biggest force multiplier for tan that I've noticed over the 4 years, is that everyone knows eachother. So I've got no problem joining up with Team7 until we run back into Team Swatt. Lots of guys will mix between platoons as they respawn, and although you're not fighting with the guys you trained with, everyone pretty competent, and everyone takes orders well, so the fighting strength is maintained.

Well thank you all for enlightening me, I was happy to hear Hectic had some positive experience with this style of game.
It is easy to understand that squad integrity only works within a group that wants it to work. My hope was that the game mode could help teach this to some willing players. That is the hang-up mostly but thanks to this thread and all of your comments I believe I will try this :)
And sorry for the necro if anyone feels it was unwarranted, I felt it a worthy topic for any date and had a legitimate interest in getting some feedback.

This subject can never really go away because it's about a mindset that needs to be reminded with every new generation of players but it's also like good wine, it needs to mature a while to have more worth.

Somewhere along the line also, there have been bad habits reinforced by COD and battlefield videogame players transposing their ''personal SOP'' to the RL.

If players pride themselves with kill ratio even if their side lost, this is a problem that needs to be adressed.

This is for players who still dont get it :

Finger Pointing to the Moon - Bruce Lee - YouTube


The kick is about your resolve to win one with the team.

Looking at the finger is you pwning your opponents,

The celestial glory means pwning is irrelevent if your team is not winning.

Yea but video games like CoD and Battlefield and RL Milsim airsoft are like apples amd oranges.

However if you ever play some of the more structured Arma II servers (eg. folk arps) they are a great introduction to the concepts of nets and command responsibilities.

Of course thats a vastly different experience to any console shooter though.

Kill-to-death ratios are . . . ridiculous. And that's all I'm going to say about that.